Dumaguete Info Search


Lessons Learned

Discussion in 'Expat Section' started by Rye83, Oct 10, 2014.

  1. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    I realize that there is nothing written on the main site about buying property in Dumaguete or the Philippines. I would like to gather information on local laws concerning expats owning land (my thoughts have always been that it is simply not possible unless you own a corporation....and even with most corporations you can only own 40 percent of the business). I know there are businesses out there that do background checks on property titles and I've heard rumors that there are even lawyers out there you can "trust" to close a deal on a house (though I'm very skeptical on that one).

    I'll be going through some of the older posts on the forum and see what I can throw together. I'm sure there is plenty already here to sort through. If you have any experiences, good or bad, I would like to hear them.

    Personally, I would never recommend anyone to buy property here unless you have no family back home (or simply don't like them) and you are just wanting to make a generous donation to a Filipino family. If you can't put your name on it, and you can't in the Philippines, then it's nothing more than charity. The day they let me, a single childless expat, own 100 percent of the title is the day I buy a small lot and build a house. No amount of sweet talk, promised love or p*ssy will ever change my mind about that.
     
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  2. expatron

    expatron DI Forum Patron

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    I hear what you say, I have heard so many horror stories including one where a guy secretly installed web cameras is his house, then went to work abroad to find he was watching live porno of his wife and her boyfriend.

    That being said, in my case my wife and I had 2 pieces of property that we bought and sold and then bought a lot and built our house, but that was after a lot of years together without 1 dishonest action.

    Now the way I keep my head clear is to realize, after so long and for our daughters sake, if something did go wrong with our relationship, I know all to well the BS she has put up with from me, she deserves the house and I would lick my wounds and start again,
     
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  3. Jack Peterson

    Jack Peterson DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Air Force

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    Whilst agreeing with most that is said and of Course knowing that we can't own the property we are Paying for, We can most Certainly prevent ( As far as possible, Unless it is a totally Unscrupulous lender) the Property from being used as Collateral in other loans. Whilst we are not actually named as Co Owners with our Wife, we can most Certainly, be Named on the Title Deed. it will say Mrs So and So..............................married to So and So................. a Particular National Citizen this, when Registered with the land registry will be regarded as needing 2 Signatures to use it for Collateral for Sale/ Loans. unless as I say, you are using a Dubious bank or Lending Facility, No one should be able to process a loan or a sale using the Title as Collateral without Both Signatures and in a perfect World, sight of the foreigners passport to Substantiate the approval of use. In fact it should be in person. (PNB are very strict on this)[ All loan Agreements that require Collateral will have a Section for the 2nd lender, Signature over printed name { you know the Drill}

    Unlike in my other Thread, People who do not or can not do this are putting themselves in jeopardy of bad things happening, the guy in my other thread did not do this and did not realize he could, at his peril, I will do an update on that Thread later when my connection is better. I post this now so that it is included in the theme of this new Title which by the way , I think is Brilliant. " Forewarned is Forearmed" so to speak . being one Step Ahead can make life so much more manageable at times.


    JP
     
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  4. Jack Peterson

    Jack Peterson DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Air Force

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    Wrye, do you think it would be useful if you made this a Sub Forum on Expats?
    JP
     
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    Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    I don't want to go overboard with sub-forums. It adds confusion on where to look up and post information. With the posting be a little slow right now (and me currently spending most of my time improving the main site) I don't think it would be beneficial at the moment. If it picks up a bit I might look into adding additional sub-forums.
     
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  6. Cletus

    Cletus DI Forum Adept Showcase Reviewer

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    My bride and I just bought a lot, we have been looking for several years, yes years. The first issue we found was using a real estate agent is that the agent will increase the asking price of the property above what the property owner is actually expecting. That is one reason some of the real estate here is priced very high.

    We started looking on our own and made an offer on one lot which was accepted. The seller was not sure where the property boundaries were so we hired a surveyor for 10,000 pesos, found out later it should have been 5,000.. We took what info we had to the seller's attorney, a very nice older man. The seller, a woman, also brought three of her siblings to the attorney's office where everyone then found out that this lady had sold the property to an Aussie a couple years prior. We lost our 10,000 pesos, which was cheap to get out of that deal, the seller was not so fortunate. Her siblings were totally unaware that she had sold the property and they were pissed as their sister had taken their money.

    We have made offers on other property that was not accepted, we were not low balling either, just offering what we felt the property was worth.

    Then we had an experience with a foreigner that still has a lot for sale, the only thing is when he gets someone that is interested he raises his price above what he had advertised. The ugly part is; he doesn't own the land, he has a lease but that still has not stopped him from attempting to sell it to some poor soul.

    We finally found a lot that we like that is worth the money, has a good title and most of all has what we have been looking for. Even with good honest sellers there are still some wrinkles to iron out on the title along with capital gains taxes.

    #1 -- Have a good attorney, Take the appropriate paper work to the attorney for their perusal then follow their advice.

    #2 -- Ask for the title and sketch plan, (survey)

    #3 -- Ask for tax payment records.

    #4 -- Avoid real estate agents

    #5 -- Find a good honest person that will look for property for you. Pay them as they bring you properties, not a lot but don't be cheap either. We have met some very nice people like this.

    Do not spend a dime on anything except your attorney until you have all of these items. (first hand experience here.)
     
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  7. hawk263

    hawk263 DI Forum Adept Blood Donor Veteran Army

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    My wife and I 'own' two properties. As a foreigner I cannot own the land. My wife owns the land and I have 25 + 25 year leases which are entered on the titles. I also have absolute power of attorney entered on the titles. (not sure how effective that would be, but the attorney recommended it). the bottom line though is that you have to trust your wife before you get involved in any property purchase. You can also check on the title for a small payment at the LRA office on the N Highway.
     
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  8. Jack Peterson

    Jack Peterson DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Air Force

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    OH!You surprise me here, I thought you could not lease back from your Wife? Well we live and Learn!

    or did she own the land in here Maiden name.
     
  9. RR_biker

    RR_biker DI Senior Member Veteran Marines

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    Some years ago I found on the internet the list I will copy below. I don't think much have changed.

    Here are the tips a buyer must remember before buying any property in the Philippines, specially if you are buying a single property from an individual:

    1. Make sure the Title is authentic. Ask for a plain copy of the owner's title. Then go to the Register of Deeds (ROD) and ask for a “Certified True Copy” of the master title held by this office. If the two copies are identical... the title is authentic. The ROD is usually located at the city or municipal hall where the property is located.

    2. Beware if the master copy on file with the ROD has any mortgages, lease contracts, power of attorney, claims of third parties, government liens, road right of way assessments, and etc. noted on the back 3 pages. Although the title may still be registered in the name of a person, ownership will be affected by what is noted on the back pages. Do this yourself or through a trusted party, never from the seller or his middleman. Titles have four pages: Cover and pages A, B, and C. Make sure you see all four pages.

    3. Make sure that the land described on the title is really the land that you are buying. You can validate this at the Municipal Tax Assessor's office by asking to see the land map where the property is located. While you are at this office, get a certified true copy of all the tax declarations to the property. The land will have a separate tax declaration. So will each building on the property worth more than 25,000 pesos. Also confirm that the yearly real estate taxes are paid.

    4. Make sure that the sellers are the real owners. If you are buying from an individual property owner, ask for identification papers like passport or driver’s license, it is also a good idea to talk to the neighbors to confirm the identity of the sellers (you might as well ask some history of the property).

    5. Avoid tax-declared property... deal only with titled property. You must be an expert at buying and selling property in the Philippines before trying to buy property with only a tax declaration. There are many properties in the Philippines that are not titled, or registered under the Torrens system. If you buy an untitled property (usually evidenced by only a Tax Declaration), you would not enjoy the benefits of the Torrens system, and you will be forced to investigate for yourself the “chain of ownership” from the present owner up to the first, which usually dates back to the 1920?s. With titled property, you can rely on the fact that the owner of the property is that which is stated in the title.

    6. Stick to those properties registered in the names of actual sellers themselves. Most properties in the Philippines are titled in the names of the grand parents or even great grandparents of the owners. thus, there is still the need to execute an extra-judicial settlement, which has a “grace period” of two years within which an excluded heir can question the settlement and the sale. This type of litigation is fairly common and is the usual source of problems. Thus, avoid properties not titled in the names of the actual seller. You need EXPERT advice to buy a property from the heirs of a deceased.

    7. Avoid SPAs (Special Power of Attorney) – deal with the actual sellers themselves. Another of the common sources of property litigation in the Philippines are those involving special power of attorneys. This is an instrument that empowers a party to deal with the property of another, usually for the purpose of selling the property. Oftentimes, unscrupulous individuals procure a special power of attorney surreptitiously from the unwitting owner who is led to believe that the document being signed is something else. Believe it or not, most of the property owners in the Philippines have finished only primary schooling and cannot read English documents. If you must deal with property being sold through an SPA make sure you seek the advice of an expert.

    8. If there are any questions that the property might not be located exactly where it is stated on the title, have the boundaries identified by a licensed surveyor. Ask the seller to allow you to conduct a relocation survey. Although you might be required to shell out additional expense for the survey, then you can actually be assured of the metes and bounds of the property and that the property you are buying is actually that stated on the title. When doing the relocation survey, make sure the adjacent owners are summoned so they can agree to the boundary line.

    9. Always see to it that you have a road right of way. Just merely looking at the property and seeing a road is not enough. Check the title and see whether or not it is actually bounded by a road lot, road, or street. The surveyor can point this out to you. Most foreigners like the countryside and coasts, where agricultural lands are located. Thus, most agricultural lands when subdivided into smaller parts do not provide for a road in the subdivision plan. Be sure therefore that you have access to the land otherwise, you might be required to purchase a right of way, oftentimes at exorbitant prices such that you are forced to enter into litigation to have the court fix a reasonable price.

    10. Never forget to have your deed of sale, contract of sale or other document over the land annotated on the copy of the title on file with the register of deeds.
     
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  10. jimeve

    jimeve DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer Veteran Army

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    I have to get this off my chest. My wife and I bought a lot, 2003, we have all the documents, tax paid, sale of deed, waiting for title transfer which is pending. Got the history with all the signatures. Started to build a house, almost finished. When we were away, back in the UK, a Filipino family decided to build a niper hut on our land, claiming it was part theirs. Wife showed them all the docs, but he still claimed he was entitled to part of the lot. His family have moved from our lot, but still insisting part of the lot is theirs, we had a meeting with the barangay Captain, but nothing come about, so we had another meeting, no joy with that. so next hearing will be in front of a judge. The Filipino keeps harassing my wife, one night he came to the house with a flashlight and a knife. Police were called, five barangay police showed up, they say we will keep the man from the lot.

    We have his signature clearly signed, that he got paid his share of 50 thousand pesos. He then claimed he gave the money back, WTF.
    Now this is doing my head in, The man now says it is not his signature.

    Wife has been to the Attorey, she says step by step, Filipino law. I know what would happen in the real world.

    So you think everything is okay, well think again.
     
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