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Spanish

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by NowandThen, Sep 29, 2020.

  1. NowandThen

    NowandThen DI Member

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    "Feelings of inferiority by Filipinos, possibly based on occupation by two countries for over 400 years."

    Was a conment of Notmyrealme.

    This made me wonder many times. The Spanish came the first time in the year 1521 (Magellan was a Portuguese though) to the Philippines and they stayed about 300 years. The South America countries were Spanish colonies between 1492 to 1832.
    So what I never understood why the Spanish language vanished in the Philippines whereas all South America countries (except Brasil) chose it as their national language. Could it be there were never as many Spanish here as in South America ?

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  2. djfinn6230

    djfinn6230 DI Senior Member

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    Some reasons include lack of immigration from Spain to the Phils due to distance and the population not being decimated by Western diseases like smallpox due to “non-zero” immunity in this part of the world. Spanish was only taught to a small percentage of the population in schools. My own observation is that the Austro-Malay languages were already well established in the region but there was some borrowing from Spanish for days of the week, months, a base 10 number system with Spanish words for numbers, reducing the need to fully adopt the language.

    Perhaps you already are aware, there is a discussion on this at medium.com

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  3. RR_biker

    RR_biker DI Senior Member Veteran Marines

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    In Zamboanga city, aka, Ciudad Latina de Asia, some people still do speak Spanish.
     
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  4. SkipJack

    SkipJack DI Forum Adept

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    Wow! You must be old to have observed this.
     
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  5. hiddenuser

    hiddenuser Guest Guest User

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    so, great subject! read all the posts and learn as always

    my two cents. before the spanish the "philippines" was just 7000 islands with many languages and individual little cultures, probably one or more per island. (as it sort of still is today) settled by mostly malay area peoples. when the spanish arrived the muslim religeon was practiced in many places including manila and most population centers. the spanish drove them out. established catholicism which appealed to most filipinos whereas spanish language perhaps did not perhaps because no one language prevailed in the country.

    i say that because the tribal culture still exists and many on negros can speak more english than their "national language" filipino (a supercharged version of tagalog) and/or tagalog proper. (yes, english is the second official language)

    the spanish created the concept of a filipino nation and named it the Philippines. manila was the center and still is largely due to the economic power (70 percent of the nation) and site of government including the military and national police. the Philippines may claim and celebrate independence stemming from events of late 1800's but was still a spanish colony when the americans "won" the philippines in the spanish american war. the US granted independance rather quickly since it really never wanted and didn't really know what to do with the phils. that was to take place in the thirties but was delayed to 46 because of ww2.

    the efforts to seek independence from the spanish spilled over with some turmoil against the americans so the relationship was somewhat awkward.

    my opinion is that still today this is a tribal conglomeration more than a country with any real national history. it has existed under "home rule" less than 80 years (only three generations) which so far which makes it a newcomer on the world stage in terms of formal self governed countries.

    i tend to see the functioning of the philippines much as i do the american indians which also have a full measure of internal disputes between tribes and even the bands within tribes.

    which leads us where? i guess that it is hard to generalize about the philippine culture and you may have to adjust your thinking every time you get off the ferry? where is it headed compared to other asian nations? i can't get wrapped around that one
     
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  6. djfinn6230

    djfinn6230 DI Senior Member

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    I am older than dirt. But I do take an interest in languages as well. Observation does not necessarily mean to see in real time (re: your reference to my being “old” haha), an observation may be made by direct viewing OR, according to various online dictionaries, none of which I suspect would be in your bookmarks file, an observation is “noting a fact or occurrence for some scientific or other special purpose or simply referencing “the information or record secured such an act” (made by someone in prior times). Learn something new today young-un?


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    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
  7. Dutchie

    Dutchie DI Forum Adept Showcase Reviewer Veteran Army

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    Interesting topic. I'm thinking that the present situation in the Philippines is pretty much the result of several factors at work.
    1. Climate / location. Spanish settlers had a choice of options to emigrate /settle into "greener pastures" much nearer to home and with a more favourable climate (South America). For much the same reasons, 17th century Dutch "expats" flocked to South Africa (and multiplied there, hence "Afrikaans" being widely spoken there, which is quite similar to Dutch language) and to North America (where they were soon overwhelmed by English speakers after the second Dutch-English war saw Nieuw Amsterdam change hands and get renamed to New York), rather than to the Dutch East Indies (present day Indonesia).
    2. Religious Culture. While the Dutch already embraced "freedom of religion" in the 17th century, and thus didn't send many priests/pastors/evangelists to Indonesia (which shows today because Muslims didn't share such values and converted the country to the largest Muslim country currently), the Spanish under Filip II were still fervently catholic "spreaders of faith" and thus sent scores of priests everywhere they colonised and forcefully converted all natives. And looking at their behaviour in the Netherlands during our 80 year liberation war, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they killed/tortured many "witches" and "pagans/heretics" in the Philippines in the process.
    3. The Spanish-American war at the end of the 19th century. Resulting in independence for the Philippines after half a century or so, and also in the inheritance of an American style organisation of government, parliament (congress), judiciary, health care and school system, which still persists today.
     
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  8. djfinn6230

    djfinn6230 DI Senior Member

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    Would anybody have an opinion as to whether or not English is simply easier to adopt on a wide scale than Spanish (or, egad, Dutch)? English just seems to have a wider tolerance for being understood, even when spoken crappily? (See, that is not a real word, I just made it up, but you probably know what I mean lol). If I try to speak Spanish to a Latino and I use even incorrectly pronounced words, they cannot understand me. But I can understand even the worst, broken mispronounced English you can throw at me. This may even partially explain the widespread adoption of English as the default global language.
     
  9. Dutchie

    Dutchie DI Forum Adept Showcase Reviewer Veteran Army

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    Hmm, I'm not sure I would comprehend/enjoy a conversation with someone speaking Cockney, and I even struggle with making sense of Limburgs (a Dutch dialect in the far south of the Netherlands). Similarly, while my German is pretty much ok, I struggle to have a conversation with my neighbour who speaks Schwitzerdütsch (but not the Zürcher type, a lot harder than that lol).

    As for English being the global language, I blame it on the outcome of that second Dutch-Anglo war, we should have kept Nieuw Amsterdam, even this forum might be in Dutch then :wink:
     
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  10. Notmyrealname

    Notmyrealname DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer

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    We could ask if that could be done now - would stop the occasional bickering (btw, Mr Nomad, humour/humor would continue as it is universal :smile: ).
     
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