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The Pentagon's controversial plan to hire military leaders off the street

Discussion in 'Expat Section' started by Cletus, Jun 20, 2016.

  1. AlwaysRt

    AlwaysRt DI Forum Patron Highly Rated Poster Blood Donor Veteran Air Force Marines

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    The system is already in place to do what they say they want to do. Lateral moves up to GS-15 to bring in the technical know how without disrupting the military command and experience structure. What happens when these people are up for promotion? What happens when they get transferred to a combat unit? Gonna keep these guys seperate for the 'real' military? How? Easy if GS, but if wearing the same rank, how? Maybe instead of O-6 they will be designated OhOh-6? If it was cyber only it could be handled like the hospital/chaplain/lawyer fields but this is 'anything goes' and is a step to getting people killed.
     
  2. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    lol A couple of nerdy career fields out of hundreds available. A drop in the hat. Not sure where you got that 85% number.

    Pew Pole of Post 9/11 Vets
    2009 Survey of 4,000 Army Officers
    The military certainly does lean to the right but it is nowhere near 86 percent.

    Being military doesn't MAKE a person conservative. The type of person that signs up is likely going to lean that way prior to joining, mainly because people that make up the military ranks come from a more conservative part of the country (the South). What makes you think that the people in these advanced tech fields are not going to lean more to the conservative side as well? This proposed plan doesn't mention what part of the country the Pentagon is going to focus their recruiting efforts. The Pentagon has focused recruiting efforts in the Sunbelt for a very long time and this is where their recruiting resources already exist.....there's a very good chance any candidates will be from that area.

    They specifically mention that these are for advanced career fields that they don't have the ability to fill. Advanced fields like these don't really mingle with "combat units" much outside of training. They get stationed at places like SMDC/ARSTRAT Future Warfare Center, USCYBERCOM, Yuma Proving Ground, White Sands Missile Range, the Pentagon, etc. Sure some will inevitably get sent to combat zones to train/advise there but civilians have been doing that since WW1 without much issue. These guys will be trained exactly the same as all troops are prior to deployment and will be prepared to carry out their job/mission overseas. I also didn't read anywhere in the article that said they wouldn't be required to go through basic training.

    Note: People have been able to sign straight up as Flight Warrant Officers in the Army for years. They go to basic as a private, they then go to their flight school and receive E-5 pay, once they pass they become full fledged WO1s. The military does not send people out to combat without first giving them a significant amount of training (not even civilians).
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2016
  3. ChMacQueen

    ChMacQueen DI Forum Patron Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer Veteran Army

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    I can't remember the source but a few years back it was shown as 82% vote Republican in the general election but it was before 2012 I believe. Its not about always who the register as or what they call themselves but which current ideology they support closer with. Many like myself were considered Democrat but more often ended up voting Rep because we have no Dems left but see what we get such as Obama, Hillary, and Sanders as radicals and not Democrats at all. Thinking of it I recall something as well making headlines the last time overseas military votes weren't counted (may have been 2008 or 2012 then which talked on the high percentage of military votes that tend to go Republican).

    I find it interesting though that we barely ever have the US Military allowed in high-school job fairs anymore and liberals preach how evil the US military is yet then they complain when we can't get people in specialized skills. Also while I've been out of it for a number of years before I got out in 2001 I tried reenlisting as a 74B I think it was and was rejected as they had a 3 year waiting list and had capped it out which is the field that leads to all those advanced computer geek jobs. I was at the time a super computer geek who ended up playing the role of by battalions computer geek. Further when I first joined that was the field I wanted as well and with all ASVAB scores above 114 they told me with only a GED (in the 92 percentile margin as well) and no driver's license all I could get was infantry or artillery so I was suggested to join as one and then re-enlist to what I really wanted later.

    When they are pulling that crap how can they say their is a shortage of those wanting to do those jobs? They create the problem just as Obama has making it harder on our military and then try and shove in a sneak *fix* for a political agenda.
     
  4. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    I can't find anything showing that troops/vets voted 82%, 85%, 80% or anything over 60% for Republican online.

    How vets are voting:
    Every article, study, poll I find are showing roughly the same numbers:
    Screenshot (519).png

    Troops do self-identify as far more conservative (around the 80% mark) than the general population but they don't vote that way. Maybe that's where the 80% stuff is coming from?

    US Military recruiters are "allowed" in high-school job fairs all around the country. You won't find them there as much because they don't need to be there.
    Doesn't have much of anything to do with a few "liberals" in a couple cities protesting in a dozen or so of the thousands of schools in the US. The military is just simply downsizing and becoming more selective with who they allow in.

    You must have joined when that MOS was overmanned or just not needed and they desperately needed grunts and cannon-cockers. A 92 AFQT score will usually open you up to get you any job you want in the Army.....line scores are more important for specific MOS but none of the 74 series required that high of line scores and only 2 jobs require any given line score above 110, 33W (Intel systems w/ an ST score of 115) and 31S (Sat Comms w/ an EL score of 120). Your recruiter failed you if a DL was the only thing keeping you from getting into a advanced or STAR MOS (make E-5 in 18 months if high-speed. I was in STAR MOS but certainly wasn't "high-speed". :roflmao:)
    Many of these jobs are not about shortages, it has more to do with the program/job simply not existing. Not sure how Obama has made anything harder on the military, he is head of the Executive Branch.....not on them to come up with a budget for military spending or laws concerning veteran benefits. Democrat and Republican legislators are both to blame for any cuts/reductions of military/veteran spending....and seeing how the Republicans have controlled both the House and the Senate for the last 2 years I'd say they are a bit more to blame than the Democrats (but not by much). But I really don't see how things have gotten harder for the military. Most of the spending cuts and force reduction that happened under Obama is coming from the draw-down of 2 wars. It makes sense to reduce spending and personnel.
     
  5. jimf

    jimf DI Member Showcase Reviewer

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    The military example makes perfect sense and I wont argue those points.
    Still stand by my assertion. Parts of these efforts has nothing to do with talented, capable individuals.
     
  6. jimf

    jimf DI Member Showcase Reviewer

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    Evidence of a continually higher tech military. Looks like they are having some of the same issues filling these roles as the private sector..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 21, 2016
  7. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    Working both for and with the Military and civilian Defense Industry for more than a decade and personally seeing (and taking part in) them looking to the private sector for specialists in new/developing technologies and capabilities to train and advise troops, I would have to disagree. It is mostly about finding talented and capable individuals.

    However, I think one reason they are specifically looking for "lifelong civilians" is to save money. Most people who have served in the military and then moved to the private sector would consider that a step backwards in their career. They are going after the ones that arent fully aware of how the defense industry works and where the money is being made. The military wants their tech and nerds at a cheaper price and throwing some commissions at the private sector seems to be their strategy to get that. :wink:

    The Military has always looked to bring in people from the private sector when advanced tech and science were involved, and they have had no problem with getting that talent from outside US borders in the past. (Development of the first nuclear weapon, ARPANET, DARPA regularly calls on the public for new ideas, etc.) Nobody is trying to make the military more liberal by trying to bring in outside talent. They are just doing what they have always been doing: looking to stay ahead of the competition.
     
  8. Jack Peterson

    Jack Peterson DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Air Force

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    There are many things I just don't understand about the US but on this I just wonder if maybe they are looking in the wrong Place,
    Could it be feasible to think about those Enlisted men that have served full time and are still only 40 ish that did not make the List for
    Service extension but may be worth reconsideration now for a recall ( providing not too much time had Lapsed) of say 5 or 7 years until the Pentagon had time to reassess the situation.
    It happens in the UK so I was just Wondering.
     
  9. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    We sign enlistment contracts with set service lengths....not for life like some European countries do. The initial enlistment contract is for 8 years. It's usually anywhere between 2-5 years active duty (actual time depends on a lot of factors) and the remaining time is spent in Inactive Ready Reserves (IRR). It's possible for the military to extend our time on active duty and they can call us back up to active duty while we are in the IRR under special circumstances.....but they can't keep you much longer than 6 months to a year longer than that, and they have to pay those troops extra $$ for their trouble.

    The Army did try to call me back up while I was still in the IRR and contracting in Afghanistan but my orders stated my position was "Mission Critical" and they couldn't pull me out of country to go empty waste baskets for the Army. :cheeky:

    But the military is wanting officers, not enlisted, that already have the skill-sets for these advanced fields. Anyone already in the service with those skill-sets will have very likely already been identified and transferred to the appropriate units (and any eligible officers, and even enlisted, are going to be fighting over spots in those newly created fields because the promotion potential a completely empty field/MOS offers is huge).
     
  10. TheDude

    TheDude DI Forum Patron Highly Rated Poster

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    Finding hackers (cyber warfare) has got to be really difficult for the military. Finding good tech people in general is hard. The market for good developers / programmers is insane right now and it's only growing.

    This article was even mentioning Mark Zuckerberg for ****'s sake.

    To get the level of tech talent that the Zuck's would hire probably isn't going to happen. These guys will turn down 6+ figure jobs just because they feel the company is spinning its wheels and they want to work on something more exciting. Job hopping is becoming more frequent. It's more about small teams working on projects as opposed to organizations. After the project, move on. For sure these sorts of people would have little patience to deal with the military structure.

    Building up serious developer chops doesn't happen in a setting like the military. You need an environment where you can explore and deal with the pressures of the markets. A cushy military job with a stifling structure won't do it, especially when you are working under someone who doesn't know how to manage developers.

    I don't know how you would find hackers. I guess you would have to train them, but then you run into the same issue as the developers. There isn't much of an industry for security people, at least not compared to developers. It's hard to get hired for gigs probing network security and you need experience to get the gigs. People don't like to pay for security probes because that doesn't make money (and talent is expensive). These people are usually bored misfits doing stuff they shouldn't be doing while growing up. Living with Mom and Dad is the only place where you can get this experience unless you are able to get a junior level job with someone who will mentor you.

    The best gigs for security is big corps because they have deep pockets and something to lose. But that's the enterprise market and difficult to break into.

    The alternative is to get someone with a deep enough knowledge of the underlying pipes of the software and networks that they could easily go hacker if they wanted to. All of these people are already employed in well paying jobs.

    In any case, you have to go outside the military for deep talent. Try to grow this within the military and you get mediocre.

    Retired military isn't going to do it either. At 40+ you have nearly seen the birth of the internet. If you haven't been keeping up your skills in the private sector, you are way out of date.
     
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