Dumaguete Info Search


Power of Attorney - Land Ownership/Control

Discussion in 'Expat Section' started by Rye83, Nov 1, 2018.

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  1. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    That's nice...but the Supreme Court has already heard a case with that exact scenario.
    ...that POA is not worth the paper it is written on. If the real owner decides to sell or lease it there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. If you decide you want to sell it and the real owner doesn't, again, you have no legal recourse, the property will not be sold.
     
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    Rye83, Nov 1, 2018
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  2. Hyaku

    Hyaku DI Junior Member

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    It's already donated to somebody else and re-registered with ROD. Since when can you lease or sell anything already registered with ROD without a court order? In any case how can I possibly sell it? That's illegal and against the anti-dummy laws. The OP was taking about cutting trees not selling. When dealing with what is on the land I use my right as Attorney in Fact and all offices will deal with me. I am not breaking any laws.
     
    Hyaku, Nov 1, 2018
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  3. OP
    OP
    Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    You are exercising property rights/decisions through another person (with a power of attorney). The Supreme Court specifically states that this is not legal. Just because you get away with it does not make it legal. You can do as you like and what you feel you can get away with, I'm just letting others know that a POA is not a legal method to own, take control of or make decisions concerning a property as a foreigner in the Philippines. It may work in the short term and for local government offices/courts but it will NOT protect anyone legally if the owner decides they no longer like the agreement and wish to sell or lease it from under you.
     
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    Rye83, Nov 1, 2018
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  4. Notmyrealname

    Notmyrealname DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer

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    Apart from the very informative case history re land ownership you provided, it is interesting (in a off-topic sort of way!) to note the price of land at that time, the amazing annual rental and why not to marry a 17 year old* (and then buy anything which she will eventually own). (* Disclaimer: Other ages may be relevant also).
     
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    Notmyrealname, Nov 2, 2018
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  5. OP
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    Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    Yeah, the guy that got the lease got a hell of a deal. It seems the Filipina didn't bother to factor in inflation to the rent. If he ended up keeping that lease for the full 25 years he would have only been paying P12k/month in 2017. The guy must have made a killing in Boracay.
     
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    Rye83, Nov 2, 2018
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  6. Dave_Hounddriver

    Dave_Hounddriver DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster

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    I am not sure where you got your Philippine law degree, but Atty Ray Mercado tells me that I can do as I wish with MY house, backed up with a POA and a private mortgage. It means that even if the Supreme court overturns the POA the person on the title still has to pay me the mortgage amount plus interest to get the house back. Making it an absolutely pointless financial venture for her to try. As in many things, possession is 9/10ths of the law. If I was out of the country for a while and she moved back in then I would be in deep caca. So I agree it is not foolproof. But it is a fair and reasonable solution that is very similar to a lease with an option to sell the property.

    Such was the legal opinion I was given, but I do understand that legal opinions vary from lawyer to lawyer.
     
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    Dave_Hounddriver, Nov 4, 2018
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  7. OP
    OP
    Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    I think the Supreme Court has made it very clear. Foreigners can not own property through another (via POA). I trust their legal statements and expertise over some local Dumaguete lawyer any day. You and anyone else can believe whoever you like, it's no skin off my *ss/wallet.
     
    Rye83, Nov 4, 2018
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  8. Hyaku

    Hyaku DI Junior Member

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    There seems to be quite an obsession with this word "ownership". Tenure is of importance regardless of ownership/renting, leasing etc. As long as you can live out your days in what you paid for it doesnt really matter. It's also a matter of the cheapest way to do it over that time. We can talk of supreme courts but they take big money. Not something an ex partner usually has. After all that's partly why they were with you in the first place.

    In my absolute irrevocable POAs it has never ever stated ownership. They permitted me to execute any document in relation to property or alienate it as if the owner was doing it themselves. And never has the word "sell" been mentioned. That is illegal. I did pay for my POA's. If anyone ever deemed my POA to be unnaceptable. I get my money back. Eleven years in now. Land and property bought for song. Zero rent. Laughing all the way to the bank. Can the owner ever try to lease or sell? My attorney says yes they could try to some unsuspecting numpty. But the point is would anybody be stupid enough to take on a property that is already registered to someone else with Register of Deeds and has a new CAR issued by BIR?

    You consider a house or property here? You do thorough search with BIR, Assessors ROD. If it's questionable? You run! The main solution in my area is not supreme courts. Three local foreigners have been shot and killed within two years over land disputes. If there actually was dispute in the first place? More the chance of that happening than a court case. My local court office has a backlog of seven years with rapes and murders as it is. You can also swing a court case around for a good seven years pleading sickness and ill health.

    Yes I am aware of Article XII of the 1987 Constitution states. I am also aware of the laws concerning wearing helmets on motorbikes, pollution and ever other law that is place in this country but never pushed due to various circumstances.
     
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    Hyaku, Nov 4, 2018
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  9. OP
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    Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    Why the obsession? Because it matters.
    Ownership = Illegal
    Renting = Legal
    Leasing = Legal (sometimes)
    POA "ownership through another" = Illegal

    The definitions matter when it comes to the law. You are legally protected with renting and leasing. You are not protected if you think you have some sort of contract or legal document that gives you anything resembling "ownership rights" of property. There are hundreds/thousands of cases that never make it to the SC because appeals are denied. Hundreds/thousands of foreigners get kicked out on their *sses because they followed bad legal advice from sh*tty local lawyers. I have heard sob story after sob story from foreigners who took p*ss poor advice. Had they just looked to the SC rulings and case law instead of listening to bad advice on how to circumvent the law from the guy on a bar stool who didn't care about obsessing over legal definitions all of their troubles could have been avoided.

    Well, as long as you know what you are doing is illegal and that you won't be protected if it ever does make its way to court then all is good. I'm sure all those foreigners that went to the SC didn't think they would ever end up there either or that their asawa would ever try to screw them over (and I'm sure they thought their contracts/POAs/schemes to have ownership would work).

    The guy in the case I posted here was out on his *ss after the wife leased it to another guy. He had to spend around a decade just to get to the SC, and nowhere in the ruling did it say she had to pay him back for "allegedly" spending his money to buy/improve the land, that was a separate legal matter (I don't know if he ever got paid back, or if he lived long enough to get another court hearing...one of the problems with dating/marrying younger women, they can wait you out). If the party doesn't want to pay it back then you have to go to court...which will likely take another decade...and what are the chances the Filipina would even have the money at that point? All things to consider when trying to circumvent the ownership law.
     
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    Rye83, Nov 4, 2018
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  10. furriner

    furriner DI Forum Adept Restricted Account

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    Agree, there is nothing a foreigner can do. You can marry a Filipina or ex-Filipina and use your marital resources to put the land TCT in her name. Then you can live there and do so legally as long as your wife “permits” you to live there. Well, after 33 years of marriage I have no problem with that. We will never get divorced or separated at this stage of our lives but I do realize that IF for some reason, that did occur, I would be basically screwed. Also, not that there is a big age difference between us (5 years), I still expect to meet my maker well before she does but in the event the reverse were to be true, then there would exist this piece of property that I am living on that I did not own. What to do? It might be possible to simply do nothing, as I note many TCTs here and mother titles are in the name of deceased people. But in my case there are these greedy relatives who might play some inheritance shenanigans and get me kicked off. A saving factor is that they probably could never afford the legal fees or the resultant capital gains tax. But then again, there are a few lawyers in the family who might go pro-bono. We had our will made out but I don’t really have a clear explanation of this situation except that I would be “beneficial owner”, not a titled owner, but I could choose who would get the title. I am not so sure I believe that, plus we have kids in a foreign land who they say “could” inherit the land but I cannot really believe that because they are not Philippine citizens though they have a Filipina mother. Anyway, I would never let the Greedy just take the house and land as-is. They have things like bulldozers to correct such injustices but an even better option might be to donate it to the Catholic Church under the condition that I can complete my final days here. Some of the relatives are so fake-religious! This would be the ultimate justice, letting all that property go, and become the property of the Church.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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    furriner, Nov 4, 2018
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