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The Pentagon's controversial plan to hire military leaders off the street

Discussion in 'Expat Section' started by Cletus, Jun 20, 2016.

  1. Cletus

    Cletus DI Forum Adept Showcase Reviewer

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  2. ChMacQueen

    ChMacQueen DI Forum Patron Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer Veteran Army

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    Being in the military from bottom up teaches a way of thinking of Country first (not government), true freedom is to be cherished which your pretty much denied for yourself in the military, and a number of other core values many which would be seen as conservative in the political landscape. This is why I think the vast majority of veterans and active duty vote conservative as well.

    Now with that said I see this as a way to allow more liberalism into the service because they could move into top positions of power w/o the whole system that tends to drive someone towards conservative views. Liberalism believes in self rather than country and doesn't care about true personal freedoms. Yet to be able to appoint a top commander who shares extreme liberal views would be devastating for the security of the armed forces and really lead to some insane decision making.

    Do we really want someone in the military who is their only for themselves and has no belief in their country first? Can we trust someone who's views are about eroding freedoms of Americans in favor of a global environment? Can we trust someone who's views are to blame the US whenever something is disliked by the liberal agenda or globalist agenda? Can we trust someone who never put in the time to earn their position the old fashioned way and was just appointed as your new boss?

    Lastly I also see this as a way to curb promoting from within which just further grows conservative minded people. No need to promote those who actually love and want to protect their country because you can put in an outsider to force a new agenda.
     
  3. KINGCOLE

    KINGCOLE DI Senior Member Highly Rated Poster

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    Edward Snowden ?.
     
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  4. Dave_Hounddriver

    Dave_Hounddriver DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster

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    From the article: Defense Secretary Ash Carter wants to open the door for more “lateral entry”

    This conjures up an image of gay men spooning. Then the mind wanders on to think that the new hires were unwilling to risk their own lives but are more than willing to risk other people's lives. Then the mind says: Foolish idea.
     
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  5. Crystalhead

    Crystalhead ADMIN Admin ★ Forum Moderator ★ ★ Global Mod ★ ★ Moderator ★ ★★ Forum Sponsor ★★ ★ No Ads ★ Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer Veteran Army

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    Anything that helps the homeless is cool with me!
     
  6. nwlivewire

    nwlivewire DI Senior Member Showcase Reviewer Blood Donor Veteran Army Navy

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    Hmmmmmm

    In some branches, this form of military accession has already been in place for decades.

    An example of this type of "push button" Officer and Enlisted happens in the medical fields - and in some of the "softer" military fields.

    A Doctor, a specialized Nurse, a Lawyer, some Ministers, and certain Enlisted rank first-termers who have a Bachelor's degree in certain qualifying disciplines can be - and are - routinely offered rank higher than that of the typical entry rank level for Officer/Enlisted. Many can start right off the bat on Day One with and O-3 or E-3 rank. I used to call the Enlisted folks like this "push buttons", because by the time they finished 6-8 weeks basic training/boot camp, they were automatically promoted to E-4. And by the time they completed their first military MOS/A school (it was usually a long one), they wound up being an E-5 when they got to their very first duty station.

    And while they may have been technically proficient, many were sorely tactically deficient. It caused a lot of personnel issues as they had rank and didn't know jack squat about how to manage their lower Enlisted because they didn't have any seasoning time under their belt and didn't know how the system operated. A few did OK - maybe they were older and had a bit more common sense. But for the most part, it was more of a pain in the butt to have a "push button" for your immediate NCO as they simply didn't know by experience, the nuances of this type of work environment (combat or field exercise environment).

    As you can tell by now, I'm not too keen on this idea. However, I do think we need to attract particularly skilled/educated folks to fill these type of skilled positions. I think one way would be to offer very sizable student loan forgiveness plans, and offer healthy bonuses payable over X amount/per year for X many years. But that would cost more money than simply offering stripes. Stripes are cheaper on the Enlisted side of this equation when you compare the cost of the rank to the cost of the educational debt forgiveness and/or bonuses.

    I believe we would greatly risk hollowing out the military Enlisted component if this were to be adopted - and especially so with the NCO core, which is the backbone of the military structure. Rank simply has to be earned over time and through demonstrable and competent experience and training.

    This is not the area to save a dollar on. Very penny wise - but very pound foolish.

    They need to look at the massively bloated military/DoD contracts that bleed buckets of red ink, lest we start bleeding buckets of red blood, too from inexperienced "push button" NCO recruits.

    Let's not conflate these two shades of red.

    nwlivewire
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016
  7. OP
    OP
    Cletus

    Cletus DI Forum Adept Showcase Reviewer

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    I recently met a retired US Navy Doctor that obviously did not get much military training. He is also born Filipino in Siquijor. He retired after 21 years in Navy then ran a hospital for 12 years as a civilian. This type of lateral enlistment has been going on for years, even back to WWII that I know.
    This gentleman retired as a CDR. I retired as a E5, or more accurately got out after my initial enlistment.
    So if it is not doctors and such they would be hiring just what would their job descriptions be?
    As King Cole mentioned Edward Snowden which is what came to mind while reading this article. I had a high security clearance as did all the guys I worked with. There was a culture of not talking shop out side our work area. If there was any talk it was always about unclassified stuff.
    There is also the culture of Patriotism, of taking care of your fellow soldiers/sailors/marines no matter what the costs, Of following orders immediately, not second guessing whether it was right or wrong.
    I think there is an ulterior motive but it may never be known what it is.
     
  8. jimf

    jimf DI Member Showcase Reviewer

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    I think you have hit squarely on a component of, shall we say, "The Transformation?"
    It is not just the Military having it's culture and (and agenda?) revised but civilian paramilitary entities as well.
    I think this is directly related to the topic...I'll paste what I copied as part of an article from a USA Today article on the embattled Oakland, Ca. Police dept:

    "Mayor Libby Schaaf promised to destroy the “disgusting," "macho" culture of the Oakland Police Department."
    "...Schaaf then appointed a civilian—and a woman—to oversee the Oakland P.D. The command staff will report to City Administrator Sabrina Landreth, who will be responsible for personnel and disciplinary decisions, the report notes.

    Miss Landreth doesn't know diddly squat about police work and now she will oversee personnel and discipline according to the article.
    I'm just wondering, without those disgusting macho cops (and soldiers), who is going to keep the citizens safe?

    (Asia here I come)







     
  9. jimf

    jimf DI Member Showcase Reviewer

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    I can't cite the source at this time, but I have heard often that the U.S. Military personnel vote approx. 85% Republican.
    It's all about votes and The New World Order folks.
    This attempt is simply part and parcel to undermining the traditions and customs of the United States and installing the "new and improved agenda."
    Still think I'm a nut job?
     
  10. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    So what is the military looking to do?

    The Navy:
    The Army:
    The Air Force:
    The Marines:
    So each branch is having trouble finding people with the knowledge/experience/training needed in some of the more advanced (and newer) career fields. They also want to add new careers/capabilities to their inventory to stay ahead of their enemies. How else would they go about doing that? The normal SOP for newer and less advanced careers/capabilities (that soldiers can be pulled from closely related jobs) is to bring in civilian contractors from the large defense companies that developed the technology to train the lower ranking enlisted/officers. That works fine for enlisted and new officers but where will you get your senior NCOs and top brass that specialize in and know how to properly utilize these fields? I believe that some of the capabilities they are wanting to add are so far removed from current military capabilities that they can't simply shift people around from similarly related fields.
    They need highly trained people with the experience and leadership abilities that truly understand their jobs/technology field to properly advise the top-level brass (Generals/Admirals). They aren't going to be pulling some bum off the street and slapping a full bird on his collar. Note that it says "as high as" O-6; I'm betting the vast majority of civilians brought in under this program are going to be in the O-2 to O-5 range. Only the most senior, experienced and proven leaders of any given field would ever have a chance at coming in as a full bird colonel.

    I think the article (and certainly the title) is trying to make it sound as if these people would be brought in to lead troops directly in to battle.....when in reality they would most likely be brought in to write field manuals, instruct troops, develop defense/attack plans and serve in advisory roles. The only difference from what is happening today is that the DoD Civilians and contractors currently playing that roll will be offered an official rank in the military.

    Note: My contracts in Afghanistan part of the job was to train enlisted, warrant and commissioned military personnel on the EW/CREW (Electronic Warfare/Counter Radio Electronic Warfare) systems to troops that had switched over to the programs that the branches were just starting up and to advise commanders on system capabilities, proper equipment use and current threats. The military also gives me the rank equivalency of a warrant officer/company grade officer for housing/living conditions/evacuation priority purposes. The only difference from what I was doing and what this proposed program is going to do is offer worse pay and require a uniform.....and that doesn't sound all that appealing to me.

    This is what is coming from the top-brass of the Marines. Can't say I'm the least bit surprised. :shakehead: Best they just stick to what they are good at anyway. (Shooting and catching bullets doesn't really require much advanced technology. :troll:)
     
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