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should i use a damme for land and 50 year lease?

Discussion in 'Expat Section' started by yogavnture, Jun 3, 2019.

  1. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    You are right. I shouldn't have agreed. When I originally read the post the acronym SPA didn't register. You cannot control land through a power of attorney. The Supreme Court has already shot this down.

    I'm really getting tired reading of the knucklehead loopholes foreigners and their sh*tty lawyers keep coming up with and posting rebuttals. Perhaps I should just do one final post summarizing every single SC case about foreign land ownership and add it to my signature block. I'm quite fed up with the topic.

    Edit: but what he is suggesting in his post is that he should take the illegal action (power through SPA) and make the sale since it would be upheld by the courts. He is correct on that and I do recall the case he posted.

    I'm not sure that fighting possible estafa with blatant estafa is a good idea though. While the same may be upheld, you are opening yourself up to possible estafa cases.
     
  2. Philpots

    Philpots DI Senior Member Restricted Account

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    Yes I know all about that with a friend who was taken to the cleaners by a totally unscrupulous woman. Two properties, jewelry, handbags, shoes, overseas trips to Japon on shopping sprees, then dumps him like a hot potato.
     
  3. hawk263

    hawk263 DI Forum Adept Blood Donor Veteran Army

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  4. Philpots

    Philpots DI Senior Member Restricted Account

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    In my opinion I believe an SPA is the way to go. It will protect you and your investment. Other mechanisms can be ruled by the courts as instruments designed to circumvent Philippine law on ownership of property. An SPA is a very simple method and drawn up by a good attorney it will protect you.
     
  5. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    How does an SPA protect you?
    1. It is not legal for a foreigner to own or control land through an SPA (or any other means). G.R. No. 164584
    2. It is not legal to use an SPA to enrich yourself, you are not acting in "good faith" if you use this method to buy and sell land for your own benefit. An SPA does NOT stop the person from acting in their own name, they can still sell the land out from underneath you even with a valid SPA. A person you have SPA over can revoke that SPA any time they feel like it, again, giving them full and sole agency over their name. You are NOT protected in any way by an SPA.
    A few of the articles from the Civil Code that I think sh*t all over this SPA land control scheme.
    Civil Code of the Philippines - Title X - Agency:
    Art. 1888.
    An agent shall not carry out an agency if its execution would manifestly result in loss or damage to the principal.
    Art. 1889. The agent shall be liable for damages if, there being a conflict between his interests and those of the principal, he should prefer his own.
    Art. 1890. If the agent has been empowered to borrow money, he may himself be the lender at the current rate of interest. If he has been authorized to lend money at interest, he cannot borrow it without the consent of the principal.
    Art. 1891. Every agent is bound to render an account of his transactions and to deliver to the principal whatever he may have received by virtue of the agency, even though it may not be owing to the principal.
    Art. 1896. The agent owes interest on the sums he has applied to his own use from the day on which he did so, and on those which he still owes after the extinguishment of the agency.
    Art. 1905. The commission agent cannot, without the express or implied consent of the principal, sell on credit. Should he do so, the principal may demand from him payment in cash, but the commission agent shall be entitled to any interest or benefit, which may result from such sale.
    Art. 1920. The principal may revoke the agency at will, and compel the agent to return the document evidencing the agency. Such revocation may be express or implied.
    Art. 1922. If the agent had general powers, revocation of the agency does not prejudice third persons who acted in good faith and without knowledge of the revocation. Notice of the revocation in a newspaper of general circulation is a sufficient warning to third persons.
    Art. 1925. When two or more principals have granted a power of attorney for a common transaction, any one of them may revoke the same without the consent of the others.

    Almost every article in the chapters about agency are written to protect the principle...NOT the agent. (As it should be.) If your lawyer suggested you were protected by an SPA, get a new lawyer.
     
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  6. hawk263

    hawk263 DI Forum Adept Blood Donor Veteran Army

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    Suggest you reference:
    SC Borromeo vs Descallar, GR No 159310 Feb 24 2009
    SC Republic vs Registrar of Deeds, GR No 158230 July 16 2008

    I have not included the case in which I was involve as the people concerned are still in the area.
     
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  7. furriner

    furriner DI Forum Adept Restricted Account

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    You are absolutely correct. I read about a Supreme Court case where an SPA for a foreigner decided to sell the land on his own. The SPA’ s client tried to get his land back and the SC ruled against him because the buyer acted in good faith. The Filipino buyer got to keep the title in his name. The SPA’s client had absolutely no claim to the land. Also, as you say the very concept of a foreigner controlling Philippine land through an SPA is unconstitutional so the original client had no recourse at all. No mention about prosecution of the SPA for engaging in illegal activity; that would be a criminal charge probably outside the scope of the case.


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  8. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    Ok? My argument is not that you cannot legally sell land that you illegally bought/own/control to a Filipino. I'm saying that if you get caught possessing/owning/controlling the land (before you sell it) you will not be able to maintain control of the title/land.

    Just some of the characters involved in this case: Lee Liong, Lee Bing Hoo, Lee Bun Ting, Ang Chia, Pacita Yu-Lee. Vicenta Arcenas, Francisco, Carmen Ramon, Mercedes, Concepcion, Mariano, Jose, and Manuel, all surnamed Dinglasan.
    F'n hell! Trying to get through and follow along with the all characters involved is going to be rough. lol Before reading and just from looking at the names I'm going to say that many are dead and that this primarily involves the hereditary exception to alien land ownership. But, I'll give it a go....

    Ok. Wow. That's a cluster-f of a situation but I think it basically comes to the same conclusion of the first case you sourced. So again:
    Ok? My argument is not that you can legally sell land that you illegally bought/own/control to a Filipino. I'm saying that if you get caught possessing/owning/controlling the land (before you sell it) you will not be able to maintain control of the title/land.

    This is "after the fact" (I'm sure there is a Latin term for this in law). This does not stop the principal from revoking your SPA any time they feel like it and it does not stop them from selling the land if they feel like it. Your SPA does not infringe on their right to act in their own name.

    Could there be some recourse for you if you purchased the land with your money and they sold it out from underneath you? Possibly. But you would have to file a case (civil, and possibly criminal) to sort that out after they have already screwed you over and taken the money. My argument is that an SPA does not protect you.

    Also, please provide a source for the case. For some messed up reason I enjoy reading them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
  9. furriner

    furriner DI Forum Adept Restricted Account

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    If I come across it again I will post it. It will be hard to find. I too have been researching this stuff recently for my own land dispute involving a threat to my wife’s ownership of a lot. Not involving SPA.


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  10. AndyG

    AndyG DI Member Admin ★ Forum Moderator ★ ★ Global Mod ★ ★ Moderator ★ Showcase Reviewer Blood Donor

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    I think the likelihood of you living out your days happily on this land are impossible for anyone to accurately predict. It does in the end come down to some trust with an SPA and I know plenty of people who have successfully bought and sold land this way. This is not a bullet proof procedure and I also know of people losing their land this way - however I feel those stories travel further and wider than the majority who just keep their successful dealing to themselves.
    Another potential safeguard would be for your friend to lease the land to you. That should at the very least make any potential legal action less likely and I certainly recommend you find a reputable realtor who is not related to the family, to guide you.

    My rule of thumb is: If this goes wrong would the lesson I learn be worth the money.
    - again: not bullet proof.
     
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