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Chinese Vaccine

Discussion in 'COVID-19' started by SkipJack, Nov 21, 2020.

  1. dadof3at1ce

    dadof3at1ce DI Member Veteran Marines

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    If it makes your hair grow, maybe it would be worth it! Says the going bald guy me.
     
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  2. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    So a 50/50 chance that you are completely wasting your time and money? Sounds about right for a Chinese product. I think the only thing out of norm is that this junk product will actually cost you more than a more reliable product.
     
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  3. OP
    OP
    SkipJack

    SkipJack DI Senior Member

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    I don't know.
    This was taken out of context in the original article.

    The minimum requirements for approval was 50%. The Sinovac vaccine far exceeded this.

    Although the final results are not finished. The Sinovac vaccine appears to be in the area of 80%- 90% effective.

    Turkey reports 91.25%

    https://www.scmp.com/news/world/mid...urkey-says-chinas-coronavac-vaccine-9125-cent

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...icacy-uncertain-despite-brazil-turkey-results

    Sinovac is price gouging. Their price is a form of high-way robbery. They are even selling it in China for the high price. One would think that a socialist/communist government would resist this.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-vaccine-idUSKBN2710UQ

    https://www.ft.com/content/80f20d71-d7eb-4386-b0f2-0b19e4aed94d

    It is one of the highest priced vaccines being made available to the Philippines:
    https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1372054/explainer-facts-about-7-covid-19-vaccines-philippines-may-get
     
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  4. djfinn6230

    djfinn6230 DI Senior Member

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    Another commenter mentioned that Sinovac is still in PH3 but will be first one available in the Phils. I would trust the Chinese or any approved VAX. The problem here is, if Sinovac is still in PH3 but will be the 1st one here, that is too late for us. We will fly to the USA, maybe even Guam or CNMI to get the vax when/if they will let SRRV travelers back in. I expect to see a black market of vaccines for foreigners here; something to watch out for.


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  5. Toto

    Toto DI Senior Member

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    Turkish officials announced Thursday that a vaccine from the Chinese company Sinovac has an efficacy rate of 91.25 percent, but the finding was based on preliminary results from a small clinical trial and none of the data was published in a journal or posted online.

    The announcement came a day after another ambiguous news conference, also about Sinovac’s vaccine, in Brazil. Officials there were expected to provide detailed results from another trial, but only reported that the vaccine had an efficacy rate over 50 percent.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/25/health/turkey-brazil-sinovac-coronavirus-vaccine.html
     
  6. Notmyrealname

    Notmyrealname DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer

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    If baldness bothers you then may I suggest the recipe of 'One egg (yolk and white mixed for exactly 3 minutes) combined (by folding, not mixing! VERY IMPORTANT) with one measure of goat dung and heated to a precise 38oC and then placed on the head for 11 minutes and 34 seconds. Removed with a white spatula'. Worked for me (see photo on my profile).
     
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  7. Notmyrealname

    Notmyrealname DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer

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    From https://www.manilatimes.net/2020/12/26/news/headlines/new-strain-stalks-ph-southern-backdoor/817756/

    An article initially on the possibility the new variant has been found in Malaysia, but moves on to the choice of vaccine:

    "Senate Majority Leader Juan Miguel Zubiri stressed that in the search for the best Covid-19 vaccine for Filipinos, safety, efficacy, pricing, and ease of distribution and implementation must be considered.

    “All these factors must be harmonized to make sure we deliver to our people the vaccine that is cost effective but is efficient and deliverable,” the senator said in a statement.

    He added that the plan to get a vaccine with only a 50-percent efficacy rate is totally unacceptable and a total waste of funds and resources.

    Zubiri was alluding to the vaccine developed by the Chinese drug company Sinovac Biotech.

    “Again it means one out of two Filipinos could still be infected which is delikado lalo na sa (dangerous for) senior citizens, frontliners and those with co-morbidities. Totally unacceptable, period!! Buti pa ‘yung mga Russian vaccine (The Russian vaccine is better) that have a 91 percent efficacy rate. We should be looking at those vaccines instead,” he said."

    He has a point!
     
  8. djfinn6230

    djfinn6230 DI Senior Member

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    The Pfizer vaccine is two doses. With a single diesel efficacy is 50%. However, it reduces severe infections by 80%. I suspect but cannot be sure that even if Sinovac were only 50% it would also reduce severe infections by a significant amount because of the immunity it does create. In my case i would gladly take even a single diesel Pfizer (if they had a shortage) or the Sinovac.


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  9. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    YMMV I suppose. Why the delay/reluctance in releasing the raw data and/or giving straight answers? I'm still a hard pass on this Chinese product. Their government is one big dumpster fire and I trust absolutely nothing that comes from them or anything they have their dirty little fingers in. The Turkish and Brazilian governments don't have a much better track record either IMO. These are not countries I would ever trust my health, security or money with.

    I can't imagine what would be injected into someone who was stupid enough to go the black market route for a vaccine.
     
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  10. Notmyrealname

    Notmyrealname DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer

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    My thinking is that for vaccine to be really safe. it should be:
    1. Produced by an independent company with no links to any government which might put pressure on it. Tricky one, as there is pressure on everyone over a suitable vaccine.
    2. Be tested on enough people of various groups.
    3. Be tested for long enough to see any side effects (that can never be fully ruled out as side effects could theoretically appear decades later).

    I would also look at how the vaccine was produced:
    1. Using mRNA - I read an article this morning dismissing the myth of the mRNA in a vaccine combining with a person's DNA - but they are not the same thing! Is it possible the mRNA of the vaccine could mix with mRNA of the vaccinated person? Just a thought.
    2. Using a weakened (attenuated) version of the virus - the safety issue here is whether the virus has been weakened enough and the risk from bad batches ('bad batches' could be the case with every form of vaccine).
    3. Using a killed version of the virus - where '2' applies again.
    4. Using similar viruses - probably safe if known over a period of time not to produce illness in humans BUT the risk is a recombination with the actual virus. How would that pan out? Could it produce a new virus able to spread even more rapidly.
    4. Using a piece of the protein coat - this would be my vaccine of choice, all other issues being equal.

    Then there is the issue of the growing medium and the adjuvant:
    The growing medium is what was used to grow the virus to produce the vaccine. There are established cell lines, such as Vero and HeLa, but sometimes chicken embryos are used. An adjuvant is a substance added to the vaccine to enhance its effect - to boost the immune response. Some adjuvants produce side effects, but should not be enough to cause serious harm. These issues should be taken care of by the testing process of the whole vaccine - so we come back to the main question: Have the vaccines been tested for long enough in enough different groups of people. Time will tell. It is now down to individual choice on this issue, throwing in the societal benefit for those interested in society.
     
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