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Discussion in 'Dumaguete City' started by Barry Willingham, Sep 20, 2021.

  1. Jens K

    Jens K DI Senior Member

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    Breaking up proteins to digest them uses more energy than digesting pure sugar or fat. So it *does* matter to a certain degree, what form the calories are in when you put them into your body.

    Second, you will still start to feel really shitty on your twinkies and chips diet after a while, because it lacks vitamins and whatever else that's usually in the stuff that makes up a balanced diet. I'm not advocating for following any diet trends of the day, but saying it totally doesn't matter what you eat as long as you count calories isn't good advice, either.
     
  2. Notmyrealname

    Notmyrealname DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer

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    I don't have actual figures as I am too tired now to search - but the difference in energy use digesting the different classes of foods (carbohydrates, proteins and fats) is probably not that great as a % of daily energy use. If you have any figures, I would be genuinely interested to see them.

    Counting calories seems to me to be the logical way of controlling obesity (not taking into account any metabolic disorders) - but @Rye83 is aware that some foods, or too much of most foods, can have a harmful affect on the body and so there is always going to be a warning attached to such advice. As a general and easily-understood piece of advice, a balanced diet regulating energy input to energy output but with the avoidance of harmful substances seems better advice than fad diets, some of which damage the body. Most people are not in the position to evaluate and so the simplest form of advice is usually the best - allowing those who wish to research in detail to do so.
     
  3. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    I'm all for a high protein diet, I'm on one myself, but cutting out all carbs is an extreme and completely unnecessary measure. Unless you have some type of medical condition there really is no reason for it. If you are somewhat lean (between 10-18% body fat) 1 gram of protein per pound (2.2 grams per kg) of bodyweight. If you are overweight or obese 1 gram of protein per cm of height is a good starting point. More if you are older as protein synthesis declines as you age. Adjust carb and fat intake to your lifestyle and energy requirements.

    You mention health concerns on an extremely restrictive diet. I agree 100% and that was my point. Things like the carnivore diet are just as risky as a 711/Twinkie diet for becoming malnourished. You would need a nutritionist or doctor to guide you to foods that contain the proper micronutrients while avoiding hypervitaminosis. You can't just gobble down chicken livers to get your vitamin C in. You will OD on vitamin A and destroy your liver in the process. It is also a very expensive diet. Not only would you spend a sh*t ton of money on meat but you would also break the bank on supplements...which are not as efficient as natural sources of vitamins found in fruits and vegetables (carbs). We are not carnivores, we are omnivores. Trying to eat like a carnivore is likely to result in health problems. A balanced diet of protein, fats and carbs is pretty fool proof....and there are a lot of fools trying to lose weight.

    The thermal effect of protein is usually quoted at 30%. Carbs at 10%. Fats at 0-3%.

    One should not try to take this into account while dieting though. Not all proteins, carbs or fats are created equally. Whey protein powder gets absorbed quickly while casein protein powder or chicken breast is much slower to digest. Refined sugars take next to no energy to digest while fruit and vegetables do. Olive oil will take less energy to digest that a chunk of fat from a steak. I'm sure there are differences between individual digestion efficiency as well. It would be misguided for a person to think that "I'm eating protein so I can eat 30% more calories now." Protein also usually comes with fat, especially if you want to enjoy eating. The low thermal effect of fat (and there will be a lot of it if you cut out carbs) is going to even out the higher thermal effect of the protein. I think the averaged thermal effect for any diet is going to float around 10 to 15%.
     
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  4. Dutchie

    Dutchie DI Senior Member Showcase Reviewer Veteran Army

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    I would add to what's already been said, that any "loose weight quick diet", is quite likely very very difficult to keep adhering to long term, and is therefore not a recommended way to improve your health.
    Much better is to eat healthy, eat less, get off your @ss and exercise, drink water rather than alcohol or soda, in other words, change your lifestyle.
    Most "avoid this, take loads of that" approaches are nothing but a shortcut to more problems than you started with.
     
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  5. Toto

    Toto DI Senior Member

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    Unless you've done it, it's all talk. Stats show 1 in 20 people keep it off after 5 years. About 40% (roughly) had been floundering with health problems for years, and woke up. Half lost weight in seemingly unhealthy ways, then learned balance and discipline. About 1 in 5 I talked to were just neurotic eaters. However they lost it, they all became disciplined and stayed within 6-10 pounds. It's a sight to not see a portly woman for two years, and she's slim, attractive, and living a life. I had one friend show me pics of his prior self. He lost weight thinking he had an imaginary ailment.
     
  6. Notmyrealname

    Notmyrealname DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer

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    You are writing here, very wisely, about the diet we evolved with over millions of years. Our ancestors hunted for meat and gathered vegetable materials (hence 'hunter-gatherers') before they started to farm them. They had a mix of those food items and drank mostly water (I assume as I am not sure when the first human consumed alcohol - I guess that was quite a long time ago as alcohol production is a natural process, but perhaps intake was limited to tribal festivals).

    The invention of fad diets is mostly a commercial thing and many celebs (which now includes 'influencers!!!) have become wealthier by promoting them. Unless a person has a certain medical condition, no one can go wrong with a balanced diet and drinking mostly water - and by exercising to retain muscle strength (remembering that the heart is a muscle also), to stop postural problems due to sitting too much, to lose weight (but a balanced diet with water should avoid that happening) and to improve mood. In other words, a balanced diet and sensible exercise all leads to improvements in physical, metabolic and psychological well-being.

    People will say that they need to input certain 'harmful' substances (e.g. cream cakes, chocolate, alcohol) or else life is boring - but no-one is saying we have to totally eliminate them, just consume them in sensible amounts. If we make a conscious decision to exceed the amounts that are harmful then that is our free choice - but may come with consequences, some knocking years off life. These are all decisions we have to make and I am very far from perfect in this - I know that and I accept the consequences. But every one of us can be healthier if we wish - it is just about choice.
     
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