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Who's side are you on?

Discussion in 'Military and Veterans' started by john boy, May 24, 2022.

  1. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    Not by "treaty". It was a "memorandum" with "assurances" (not "promises" or "obligations") that requested signatories to "refrain" (not "abstain") from aggressive acts against Ukraine (and other countries), either through military or economic force. No party was legally obligated to help Ukraine with military assistance in case of invasion. The wording in the memorandum was, likely intentionally, kept soft/weak and non-binding. It does not offer the same protection as a true defense treaty. Legally, the US has no obligation to help Ukraine, morally on the other hand I feel they do.
     
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  2. soup464

    soup464 DI Junior Member Veteran Air Force

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    Also that takes money designated by our congress.

    Like China will abide by international law... hahaha good one~!

    They will probably go hide like you ahahaha
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 26, 2022
  3. SkipJack

    SkipJack DI Senior Member

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    I don't know.
    Politically one has to wait for the facts to clarify themselves. Ignorant people need to see the extremes before they can be convinced.

    Germany is a good example here. The German leadership was in bed with Putin. The German leadership did not think Putin would actually invade. The leader of the German intelligence was in Kyiv the day of the invasion and a special operation was executed to extract him.

    It wasn't until the Bucha atrocities that the German leadership had to change their position or be run out by the German population. The German people were staging protests. The people of Ukraine had to become victims in order to overcome German ignorance.

    Still Germany has not begun the rationing of natural gas. I understand that Germany is in a position where they cannot cut off Russian gas completely. On the other hand they can begin preliminary rationing (10%) to reduce they amount they buy. Ukrainians are dying and their GDP is cut by 50%. Meanwhile Germans are not willing to be a little chilly.

    For the past few years, the Polish have been weaning themselves off of Russian gas.

    This is why we had to wait and let the the facts take shape. So that ignorant Germans can come to the same understanding as the Polish.
     
  4. eskirvin

    eskirvin DI Forum Adept Blood Donor Veteran Navy

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    I don't see how any of that is pertinent to the conversation as no one was arguing "legalities" that I can discern. If anyone thinks the law encompasses all that is moral or ethical, dictatorships everywhere need them on the police force. No citizen of Ukraine has argued they shouldn't be helped because their paper was entitled a memorandum, at least that I've seen a story about. If the actual words used help you though, I'm happy for you.

    Russia is as weak as they ever will be, demonstrated by their campaign against Ukraine. The future of Russia is painted rather clearly without an intervention from the West (Is West the right word?). They'll keep taking more and threatening the use of nuclear weapons as a deterrent. Don't worry about whether or not people are brave enough to go help, because if war does happen, you can be assured everyone will feel the effects.
     
  5. eskirvin

    eskirvin DI Forum Adept Blood Donor Veteran Navy

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    I don't believe China will at all. They're likely emboldened by this Russian invasion, if anything.
     
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  6. soup464

    soup464 DI Junior Member Veteran Air Force

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    My God exactly. Now the Germans up their defense spending as well President Trump told them to beware, but they ignored him. Shame on Germany.
     
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  7. Notmyrealname

    Notmyrealname DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer

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    Russia has proved itself militarily weak (in conventional terms) - especially when one considers they have spent years 'improving' their military. But they have proved themselves VERY strong by using an existentialist threat against the West and found it worked. So they brought in scum from Chechnya, Syria, Libya, Mali (I think) and used indiscriminate weapons which (as they knew would happen) killed many innocents and then warned the West not to provide weapons or any personnel to Ukraine (i.e. 'Do as I say and not as I do'). Now Ukraine is on the point of losing the Donbas. An emboldened Putin may then move on the rest of Ukraine and perhaps into Transnistria and possibly the whole of Moldavia. Will the West still sit on their hands and shake - or will they say that if the Ruskies can bring in massive weapons and military personnel from as many countries as THEY wish, then we can do the same.

    If the worst outcome prevails and Mad Putin uses nukes then it will only be advancing something that is going to happen anyway (does anyone actually think they will never be used???). The most crucial thing then is to make absolutely certain that every piece of habitable and/or functional Russia and Belarus is destroyed and hold back some nukes in case anyone emerges from their bunkers so they can be nuked a second time. It may not be a survival technique but Samson was correct (I believe this is Israeli doctrine as well in relation to an existentialist threat).
     
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  8. PatO

    PatO DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer Veteran Marines

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    I am concerned with China's position on Taiwan, while Russia is playing bully.
    Somewhat similarly, in WW2 we had Germany in the east and Japan in the west to fight. I agree nuclear weapons would be used, perhaps in the beginning not the end, if war breaks out. What a disaster that would be.
     
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  9. OP
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    john boy

    john boy DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster

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  10. OP
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    john boy

    john boy DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster

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    Sorry for the above posting was not intended to come out like that, my apologies to PatO being mis-quoted in part by my own input.
     
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    Last edited: May 31, 2022
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