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Forum Nazi's ?????

I live in Norway. A lot of years we are considered the best country in the world to live in. And even here it is a lot of wrong things.

No problem about critics as long as it is contructive criticism. Which I stongly felt this wasn't at all.And I feel strongly that I wasn't the only one reacting. When we are as guest in the PH, we should "behave" as ones.

 

Ok, so saying the truth as it is hurts. I live in the Philippines (2 years) and I have travelled extensively for diving and I have been travelling for diving for 13 years.

I have travelled and dived in Micronesia, Thailand, Indonesia, Red Sea and the Mediterranean.

And, I do stick my neck out if I feel what I am doing is right.

My comments are based upon my experience of Philipino divers, BFAR Officials, DENR Officials, DOT and local Baranguay Officials who REALISE that some things are wrong, but are not prepared to stick their necks out to do anything. In fact, I can hapily provide many examples of this (all examples relevant to the marine environment/protection).

Personally, I have stuck my neck out to protect Phillipine reefs and marine life (though I am British), and have found local divers to be totally innefectual in regards to taking any of these matters forward. In fact, we have a great deal of respect where we are and people bring matters to our attention as they know we will (at least) act upon them.

It is unfortunate/predictable that some people cannot take constructive advice regarding marine protecton/tourism development. Realise that I advise many people to come to Dumaguete and dive Apo, Dauin and other sites in this area every year.

Either be constructive in your opinions about diving in the Phillipines and take positive action to protect your heritage (locally and to the World) or shut up'

As a divers, we belong to a worldwide community who should be proud of places like Apo and Dauin and we should be prepared to do whatever it costs to protect and restore the reefs to their former glory (for everybody, and for many reasons).

Apo IS one of the best places to dive in the World. However, allowing this area to be seeded with fish traps and fished (close to the island) sends the message to the outside world that conservation is a compromised in the Philippines against the needs of the fisherfolk who previously have been allowed (by you Filipinos) to destroy reefs via cyanide and blasting. Now, some of you advocate that these people (fishermen) should be allowed to dictate how reefs are managed??? You are crazy.

By all means, collect a fee from divers and give this to the fishermen so that they do not fish there. However, take money from divers AND allow fish traps/fishing and you will totally ruining your dive tourism.

I am sorry if some cannot see this, but this is the real reality of the situation.

WWD

 

As you know Cyanide and dynamite fishing are prohibited by law and is a crime, and should be treatened as that. What you mean with "fish traps" I dont know exactly but probably small fish nets or containers dont seems for me as a disaster. Allthough me as a active diver for more than 30 years prefer dont having them where i dive.But i clearly understand that i cannot deny the places fishermen usin this kinda tools as long as it is legal.

But you should place your meaning about this to the APO marine reserve's administration.And not here.Here we only discredit ourselves with this kinda "shouting"

 

OK dude. You are obviously a very experienced diver. I have only 13 years experience and a few thousand dives. You are a god.

I am simply saying what we have seen and experienced while diving in the Philippines.

And, while there is absolutely nothing wrong with the laws in this country regarding marine protection (except for designation of threatened and endangered species*), the problem lies in enforcing the law (as you must be aware).

As I said earlier, I can provide many examples where we have got off our asses and taken the lead in protecting the marine environment in your country. I can also provide many examples of cyanide and blasting of reefs around the Philippines which we have witnessed, if you really wish (including some really good photos to back this up)

Point is that though there are concerned divers here in the Philippines, divers prepared to ACTUALLY do something to protect/restore the environment are few and far between (maybe you might be pleased to provide me with some example to the contrary????).

Point is, if we all keep the attitude we have, then coral reefs will soon be a thing of the past. Fishermen are not a solution. They can benefit, but have destroyed 70% or more of the Philippines reefs in the past 30 years.

Also, you have been diving for 30 years (Philippines?)- what have you done to try and prevent the destruction here? Your track record on marine conservation/protection comes into question here I think.

Or, are you just another big mouth who talks a lot and does nothing but benefit from the efforts of others who actually do get off their backsides and do something?

WWD

*Philippines use the CITES list for protecting marine life. The IUCN list is better and more comprehensive - thus has a bigger 'commercial' impact and is harder to enforce. Even enforcing the CITES listed marine life is impossible in the Philippines due to the lack of resources available for coastal management and marine life protection.

 

I'm a god???? I have also a few thousand scubadives on my neck.

But this isn't a matter for our discussion. You are an UK diver divin the Philippines. Then you (and me) is there as a guest. Then we dont behave as an elefant inn a glass store.
Normally I woldn't care about you behaving as a "moron" there, but you kinda drag me as a diver into it. Thats why I want you to pull the right strings about a theme which also is important to me.The content we in fact mostly share, but the presentation is .......

 

Look, I've been around the block a few times and I have experienced good and bad practices regarding conseravation.

I really don't want to get into an argument over what we both probably agree on. I really think that Apo, Dauin and the environs around Dumaguete are world class. I just cannot agree that fishing should take place near to Apo.

This is because it is a million dollar industry which attracts dive tourism worldwide. Also, Apo is promoted as a model of marine protection and conservation.

If people are complaining of fishing/fish traps on dive sites there, then something needs to be done. For a start, money collected locally should be paid to local communities for them to STOP fishing AND protect Apo.

This is logic??? Why should the money go to Manila then into someone's pocket?? This is what divers think right now (and locals).

However, are you and your friends doing anything to stop this??? I think not as it is too much effort and trouble for you.

This is the typical case I have witnessed - people do not agree, but do not take action.

Sorry, but this is the real truth of the matter (unless you can enlighten me otherwise).

 

WWDiver, I'm starting to get a bit more respect for what you're doing, if true.
I don't mean the way you behave here. That's for me still NOT-DONE, and certainly not in a first posting without any introduction.
No I mean what you claim to do to preserve underwater life around here.
Slowly we get some info now of who you are.
You have my interest and would like to hear/see more (with the pics you possess) in a PM or as normal posting.
But again.... don't start a war to get things done. You know what that brings. Whtrahonky even uses terms like Nazi forum.
WW-II has given no salvation to the ones who started. WWD should be well aware of that as an englishmen.
BTW: 13 years diving is a relative short time in which you however made quite an interesting amount of dives: some thousands.
If 'some thousands' is > 4745 you dived as average each day of the year during those 13 years. Honest respect.
I dive much longer but not with that average
Hope to hear/see more.

 

Well, I dont see me (the diver) as the center of the universe. I accsept fishing as long as it is sustainable and legal and from the lokal community on the spot.

 

I have good friends in Dumaguete and really like the city, the people and the diving. I respect divers and want more dive tourism (the right kind) in the Philippines. I also realise the potential for dive tourism in the Philippines.

But, I do not respect irresponsible fishing, diving or lack of comitment to conservation.

I know what can work as I have witnessed this. Apo is one of the best places to dive in the world - period. However, it could be better managed to improve the pelagic/reef life by banning all traps and fishing around the island. Money raised should go to local fishermen to protect this place.

Just imagine what the marine life would be like by taking these easy measures? Then, what would this place be like compare to places like Palau??

You and I can only guess.

However, I know that you and many others would just wish that these simple measures would be implemented.

 

On fishermen - Filipino fishermen are the best in the world. They are expert at catching anything that swims in the sea. Unfortunately, this also means taking juvenile and adolescent fish that are not old enough to breed.

How many times have you seen fully adult fish/schools of fish around the Philippines? Go to Palau and dive Blue Corner and you will see more big /schooling fish on one dive there than you will see in one year in the Philippines.

What is the difference?????

Overfishing and poor marine conservation methinks.