⌛ Labor Unions

Marvin, thanks for posting this on 'Quotes', it triggered a conflict within myself, and given we have many members from different countries impacted by labor unions,this may be an interesting forum topic, as long as we keep politics out of it.

My family grew up poor but my dad's membership in the Teamsters Union (and mob dues at that time) kept us able to go to the dentist regularly and the doctor as needed. However, as I went to college and learned how the labor unions had a damaging affect on the steel and auto and other industries which helped lead to imports exceeding exports in the U.S, I became anti-union, and bought less-expensive foreign cars, for example. Further, I eventually got into the off shore outsourcing business with U.S. companies improving their bottom line by using less costly labor in Asia. So IMHO, unions outlived their purpose and have been a detriment to the US economy the last 40+ years. I am thinking our UK and other members have opinions on this as well.

 

OH! Yes!

For me Pat! The labour movement (At the Time, 1960's) and the Unions killed, Great Britain. Today, we see just a remnant of this, arising again. Unions, had their place in the 40's & 50's and possibly early 60's, Social Reform, was supposed to and indeed, was intended, to remove the social Stigma. It never happened of course. In the 70's and early 80's, It killed, like the US, Steel, Coal, Cars and our much loved NHS. Hence, to me, we see the saying, "What goes round, Comes round" Too old to worry now but have to agree, it will be good to hear some arguments on this. Keeping politics out of it, well, that could be a tad, Difficult I fear. Here's Hoping!


Jack P.

 

Pat, sad but I have to agree, the unions have killed almost all the manufacturing businesses. I'm not sure on England, but what does the U.S. manufacture now?
Not many factory's are left due to the union's strangle hold, causing such a high cost of doing business in so many fields.

Once China (with no union's) brings up their quality and starts producing airplanes, what will happen to Boeing or for that matter Air Bus? It will take several years but, if I was a betting man I wouldn't hesitate.
Ron

 

I think that if we can argue over where to buy coffee we are stepping onto dangerous ground here. I don't think there is any way to separate the labor movement from politics. I know I have strong feelings on the subject that differ from yours.

 

I don't think we can correctly say that unions have outlived their purpose. I think many unions failed to evolve, and maintained the same millitant mindset which was possible required in the days when employers didn't give a sh*t about the employees, just the bottom line.
The fact is that many company owners/managers have (had to) evolved, and see the employee as their main resource, and main source of future financial success. But they have had to adapt to the globalised market, and if they can't beat the Chinese manufacturers, then they need to be able to join them, in the sense of opening China mainland manufacturing.
I think manufacturing in the West is, in the majority, a dying concern. Western companies and leaders need to focus on the things that China cannot do, yet. They need to stay ahead of the curve.
That being said, too many Western countries have looked to save costs in all areas by outsourcing or purchasing from abraod, without understanding or planning for the knock-on effects that will happen to local economies.
You close down a factory in a town to save 20% in costs, but then local people have no income to spend in local stores, and the town slowly dies.
I think countries need to consider the longer term effects of decisions, and I think companies, towns and countries need to look at only purchasing in products and services that they cannot provide themselves. Self-sufficiency will be the name of the game in the future.

 

I tend to agree that unions are a dinosaur.The unions did get the kids out of the mine and many other worker benefits. However the unions have since turned into the thing that they fought against...Big Business...i was a dues paying member of the UAW and an organizer for many years..My eyes are open now it is like most things in the US now...profit oriented and me motovated..xhippie

 

I have to completely diagree that there is no place for unions. As we are witnessing, many companies would rather not provide benefits nor even minimun wage for its employees and while they claim it is driving them out of business they are going to the bank with unheard of CEO/upper level compensation.

Right now it seems that the only unions not being attacked by you-know-who, for now, are the police and fire unions. But should they prevail and continue to attack these unions as they have in other trades, what is going to happen? Will everyone have to pay a fee to have the police or fire department respond to your problem? That is not the vision these services were started with and unions help them keep sight of providing services for everone while compensating the police and firemen fairly. So we can either argue that since police and firemen get unions and these unions are doing what they are supposed to be doing than other workers surely deserve to unionize also. But that adds wood to the fire on the side that contends that all unions are irrelevant? So which one is it?

 

For people who doubt the relevance of unions today I think the chart posted at the web site below tells a lot.




source:Corner of Justice: Union Membership Vs. Middle Class Share of Income

Germany's economy seems to be doing better than most is highly unionized.

 

The end of the unions in the US was almost guaranteed by the much hyped red scare of the late 40's and 50's.
That's when pretty much all the big unions voted out the leaders who were communists sympathizers and socialists and voted in leaders affiliated and controlled by organized crime.
It was considered a patriotic thing to do.

But an uncorrupted and cleanly run union can be a benefit to both employee and employer, but they'll never let you know that.

 

20 Reasons To Thank Labor Unions | Addicting Info

Here are the first ten, kindly click the link if you wish to see the rest.


Labor unions are responsible for the many benefits of our jobs that we enjoy today. Even if you only work part time in the worst job possible, you still enjoy at least some of the fruits that labor has fought for. Here are 20 of them.

1. Minimum Wage: Without federally mandated minimum wage, we’d still be working for pennies.

2. Child Labor Laws: Without these laws, children would be hired as cheap labor.

3. Paid Vacations: Did you go on a cruise this year? Perhaps to the Grand Canyon or another country? Thank a union.

4. Employer Health Care, Dental, and Vision Insurance: If you have a medical, dental, or vision care plan through your employer, your a lucky person. All because of organized labor.

5. Pensions: If you were able to retire at 65 and get pension checks in the mail, congratulations, you’re living proof that unions work.

6. Safety Conditions: Do you work at a potentially hazardous job but have safety regulations in place to protect you? If so, unions are responsible for your continued safety.

7. Collective Bargaining: Just having the right to negotiate with your employer is a benefit guaranteed by a union.

8. Weekends: If you have weekends off to spend with your families, a labor union is responsible for giving you that time off.

9. Sick Leave: Did you get to use a work provided sick day to get well? Unions fought for that too.

10. Overtime: Are you able to work overtime and get paid even more for it? Thank a union.