Best Posts in Thread: Paedophiles barred from Indonesia

Pedophillipines? Pedofilipino?

How many of these people are leaving because they are facing persecution in their home countries?

My problem with this attitude towards the issue is that it squeezes out any possibility of understanding and treating the problem. It's such a taboo subject that nobody even wants to talk about it or study it. The scientific community can't even touch (haha) it.

It's a similar issue to illegal drugs. These drugs could have legit medical uses but nobody can touch them because they are so highly regulated. Then people who get hooked on them are criminals when they should be receiving therapy.

Pedophiles aren't going away. There are probably a lot more of them out there than we realize. They should have ways to get treatment and deal with their problems.

The best part of this story is the sharing of info between these two countries. That's a great step in dealing with all kinds of issues. Though I don't like the idea of being restricted to travel based on a criminal record. In some cases, this record could be fabricated to intentionally cause problems for people.

If you want to burn these people alive, I'll bring marshmallows. But if we really want to fix it, we need to beak it open, study it, understand it and then do something which has a chance of fixing it. The same way you approach any other problem.

 

I thought of giving my reply in two parts by first asking a question but I hate doing that.

Ok, what studies there have been often refer to a cycle of abuse. The abused often becomes the abuser in the next cycle. I'm sure you have heard of that? Todays pedophile represents the point of an inverted pyramid. If they molest two children and those two children each when they are grown molest two children...I'm sure you can tell the direction I'm going, even if you don't see my destination.

Let me ask a few more questions? How is Mad Cow disease controlled? The cattle with mad cows disease are segregated and destroyed. Not so? Are you seeing anymore headlines about mad cow disease?

Because of the psychological / generational nature of pedophilia, I have heard it called a sexually transmitted disease. I have no objections to someone trying to cure pedophiles as long as they are ones that walk in and seek help before sexually abusing children, but as any other disease we don't have a cure for, lets do what we know works. It really does work. It may not totally eradicate but it does keep the problem to low levels.

 

Can't be bothered with this cut n paste thing, but I'll add my ha'ppence worth. First of all kids need protection, we can't afford to let anyone to become a victim. It ruins lives.

Second Paedophilia is not categorised as a mental disorder either in DSM-V or ICD 10. It is however under close, intense and rigorous scrutiny/investigation by the scientific community. My field is picking up the pieces of the victims.

Functional Magnetic Resonance Imagery (FMRI, photographing the brain approx 50 times per sec) studies consistently reveal that with paedophiles several important brain centres concerned with empathy, moral judgement, impulse regulation, risk taking and the relationship to anxiety are not as 'lit up' as compared to normal control subjects . Empathic skills, moral judgement, risk taking and impulse control are developmentally acquired.

For example, empathy develops around the age of 3-5, natch, it's about this time we train our kids to 'pat the doggie' and 'not be cruel' or 'play nicely with Johnie as he won't like it when you.....'

So, in circumstances where there is absence of this training, maybe when a child grows up in circumstances of this type of deprivation or sudden abrupt regular violence; simply put the synapses do not make the necessary links. Result: absence of these developmentally acquired skills. It doesn't occur with everyone, nor is it the same as saying "mom sent me to bed without supper when I was 3, so let me off Your Honour" - but the relationship between extreme abuse or deprivation though in its infancy is more and more reliably proven.

So what to do? Hang em, flog em, whip em? I think it is more complex than a lot of folks here suggest. Acquired developmental disability or brain damage is not a mental disorder. If killing them is the answer then I feel very sorry for the world. Yes, we need protection, our kids need protecting. But simple reactionary populist views do injustice to a lot of adult victims. I won't go so far as to suggest that Uncle Adolfs programme to euthanise those with Downs Syndrome or a Learning Disability in the 1930s is similar to calls today to kill the paedo...but hey, as science develops the parallels become obvious.

Doc C out,

Cheers

 

How about an online fully public database of every convicted pedophile and listed by the country they come from and the country convicted it. Would be interesting to say the least.

I'll agree with Robert though, chop off their dongs and balls and let them bleed out. Problem solved. However would need a fairly strong safety margin of what exactly qualifies. Is having sex with a 17 year old pedophilia as some say it is but really it isn't and then also would require solid proof that sexual acts happen and not instances of someone having a 12 year old kid in their house that wasn't blood related or van. Plenty of cases of good people doing good deeds that get mistaken. Remind me of a story I don't recall well of a foreigner here in Dumaguete accused of being a pedo because he gave local kids that weren't his a ride to school and from what I heard there was was no evidence of such nonsense claims either.

I'd also say I'd keep the death penalty to actual pedo's, not cases of 16/17 year olds and such as plenty of times those may very well look much older (I knew a 14 year old girl who was a nearby neighbor who one would swear was 19).

 

Should have done it a while ago.

 

Selective Mapping of Psychopathy and Externalizing to Dissociable Circuits for Inhibitory Self-Control, Rodman, M.A, Kastmar, E.K., Dorfman, H.M et al. Journal of Clincial. Clinical Psychological Science, May 2016

Breakdown in the brain network subserving moral judgment in criminal psychopathy. Pujol, J., Batalla. I., Rodriguez, O.C., et al. (2012) Journal of Affective, Social and Cognitive Nueroscience Vol 8, 917-923

Neurodevelopmental marker for limbic maldevelopment in antisocial personality disorder and psychopathy. Raine, A., Lee, L., Yang, Y., Colleti, P. British Journal of Psychiatry (2010) 197 (3) 186-192

My usual drivel.



Umpteen other studies too and I am not your librarian. I don't get personal around arguments or accuse someone else of what they might/might not be thinking/feeling. Each to their own I suppose. But let the science speak for itself - increasingly we are understanding that there is a neuro-biological basis for paedophilia/serious anti-social behaviour - often associated with early brain trauma. We don't kill victims, we try to treat them, as well as making the world as safe as we can for kids and victims.

ATB

C

 

I did say over and out...but as it is warming up, I couldn't resist. Aquired brain injury or developmental retardation ( the PC word is "immaturity" or "delay") is not a disease, nor are human beings cows. I would recommend that the poster that likened humans to mad cows start eating them (Creutzfeld-Jacob Syndrome free of course). They obviously are the same.

Umpteen studies have linked the cycles of abuse to criminality. My Employer does not allow me to cut n paste links to journals and scientific research on this matter as normally they pay a fee to join such publications. So any Tom, Dick and Harry on sites like this is, given copyright laws, will face the The Journal of Modern Neurology/British Journal of Psychiatry haram. Sorry. But as a good starter, Michael Rutter's Isle of Wight longitudinal study in the late 60's-70's is a good robust start. It was a ground breaker and should be on google.

Concening the multiplier question, not all victims go on to become perps. And I made that clear in my last post. The ratio of victims female to male is approx 6:1, so hey boys, better watch out for those predatory females, especially if you are under 5, according to the wisdom here.

The point being, there are other factors at play. Serious, sustained mental, physical and sexual abuse seems to render males (over females) vulnerable to brain injury/retardation. We don't why yet, but I have my ideas. It is not medicalising things, nor letting perps go free, nor is it giving them a disease burden or excuse to paedophiles. A disease is something caught, either on the breeze or through exchange of fluids. It is not a sustained beating or buggery on multiple occasions at the age of 3 onwards. Our understanding of the brain is still in it's infancy. That being said we know enough know to understand that OFTEN perpetrators, those that do harm, have OFTEN been victims themselves. Being the victim OFTEN renders a developing brain at a disadvantage. Hey, who here would shoot a person who becomes blind or loses the ability to walk for whatever reason? Same-same according to the research...

Thanks all for reading,

C

 

You can't fix paedophilia. It can't be treated as a disease and those people can't be cured in most cases at least. Treated as a disease and sickness would just provide a justifiable defense "its not my fault, I can't help it" sort of crap yet these people can't be fixed for the vast majority. It often comes down to an absolute power both physically and mentally for those who have severe ego and self esteem issues who want to do these things and feel both physical and mental power while not feeling as the bad guy one would get from raping a normal aged adult or physically mature person. There is of course a lot more to it though. We also have some bizarre cases of where some individuals think their actions are actions of love and don't see what they are doing as bad but those cases are very rare overall.

We need to stop treating evil acts as a disease that we can cure because then we also absolve the person of their guilt at least in part along with create a plausible defense for the next act. Are certain races predisposed to violence and hate? Is a certain gender predisposed to sexual violence? Is a religious upbringing predisposed to certain criminal actions or lack there of? US federal data could be used to argue very reasonably that blacks are predisposed to criminal and violent tendencies. Further data could argue Muslims are predisposed to child rape. Hispanics are predisposed to crime. Males are predisposed to rape. Women are predisposed to marital fraud (defrauding the would be husband for financial benefits yet failing to fulfill her end of the contract).

Its time to stop making claims to remove someones guilt of a wrong they commit. If someone commits a bad act stop looking for excuses. Look at ways instead to protect future victims instead of ways to explain why a bad person did something bad or why they turned bad. Yes their father may have abandoned them, their mother may have been on the sauce and abusive, their priest may have molested them, their school teacher may have ridiculed them, they may have had no friends, they may have never learned a discipline and rewards.... its to late and you can't fix the world, you can just clean it up as best you can.