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Best Posts in Thread: Dumaguete City to discipline unruly foreigners.

  1. gord

    gord DI Member Admin ★ Forum Moderator ★ ★ Global Mod ★ ★ Moderator ★ ★ No Ads ★ Showcase Reviewer ✤✤Forum Sponsor✤✤ Forum Sponsor

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    I read the article a while back, and have also seen an increasing number of anti-foreigner sentiment from some of the locals. To be honest it is something that does bother me. Some of my thoughts:

    1. those anti-foreigner sentiments come from a very small percentage of Filipinos, and it is my belief will have resentments against us regardless of what we do. The majority of Filipinos in the Dumaguete area are good people who also see the majority of foreigners as good people, regardless of the actions of a few bad apples. I tend to think that I should not paint all Filipinos with the same brush and hope for the same treatment from them.
    2. Filipinos in my country, and most other western countries are NOT treated badly. In fact a Filipino in Canada is treated far better than I am here in the Philippines. They are given rights such as the ability to own property, business and get jobs. They are given access to a social safety net that includes medical coverage, welfare and employment insurance. They come to my country , make money, send it home and help out their families. We afford them opportunities far beyond any in their home country. If they step out of line, and break the law, they are afforded the right of due process. There are many many more Filipinos in Canada, than us Canadians in The Philippines,(like most western countries) so any talk from anyone that they get a raw deal is crap.
    3. When a Filipino in my country is rude or disrespectful,,, and yes that happens, I and most of my countrymen do not target them as a group and tell them to go back to their country. Actually, if we were to do that, we would be socially castrated and vilified, if not face criminal charges. Though I am realistic enough to understand that I cannot expect to be treated the same way here in the Philippines as Filipinos are in my country, I sometimes want to suggest to the Filipinos who want to attack us foreigners here to think long and hard how they would want their friends and family members to be treated in my or other western countries country. And I can almost guarantee that each and everyone of these Filipinos who complain about foreigners probably have relatives or friends overseas.
    4. After seeing a blog article written by a foreigner about how Foreigners are rude and disrespectful, I cringed. To me this is simply the wrong thing to do. This is stirring the pot and fan the flames of that small group of locals who do harbor resentments towards foreigners. This was borne out by a Facebook post about a week after where a Filipina complained about a rude and disrespectful foreigner in Dunkin Donuts. eventually she admitted that she made the post partly because she had read the article the week earlier from the foreigner. Obviously it did stir the pot.
    5. Rudeness and disrespect happens all over the world, in every country, by locals and foreigners to those countries alike. Being an *sshole IS NOT related to race, nationality or any other "group" classification. There are Filipinos in the Philippines who are rude and disrespectful, as there are Canadians in Canada who are rude and disrespectful. Each and everyone who is rude and disrespectful should be treated as the specific *sshole in a specific circumstance that they act this way in. If a foreigner in Dumaguete is rude, disrespectful, or breaks a law, he should face the consequences to the full extend of that law. The same holds true for Filipinos in foreign country. What is wrong though is that good people should have to pay the price for the bad apples.
    Ok, All that is my emotional response, however the only thing that really matters is reality. I am living in a foreign country and there are some people in this country that will have resentments towards me, for reasons real or imagined. I do not have the power to change that, but what I do have the power to do is live my life in a way that I am proud of. That means being respectful of the locals, obeying the laws of the land , and giving back to the community in whatever ways I can. I have faith that the majority of the locals in this "City of Gentle People" will live up to their name and accept, appreciate and continue to welcome me. Should there come a day when the small people who harbor resentments towards me as a foreigner, grows to a poitn where I am uncomfortable, I will pack my bags and move with my family somewhere else. I believe that if it comes to that for me, then it will probably come to that for many other expats here, and then, sadly Dumaguete will be the loser, because most of us bring more to this region than we take.

    Gord
     
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  2. djfinn6230

    djfinn6230 DI Senior Member

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    Well this is one of those movements that take on a life on their own and nothing can stop it. Now that several councilors are involved saying that they have the power to get foreigners deported, they have taken over a situation that has long bothered them for some reason. Now we notice that even parking violations show disrespect of the sort that should get you kicked out! I would be cautious of the growing anti-foreigner sentiment that seems to be taking over. Again, government officials are saying this stuff. Media compliantly agrees. And even foreigners here agree. Ever park your bike or car illegally? And btw it does matter how foreigners, the legal ones, behave in my own country. Because you know what, it isn’t the fact that people are foreign, whether we here are spending too much money raising prices or they are there taking advantage of our free services and taking our low paying jobs from our lower classes, people are the same everywhere. No matter who we are or where we are from, just look at people as individuals, not as foreigners but as people. We all have our idiots but on both sides we make our host countries much better and even make it possible for them to survive. Whether in the US, EU or ANZ or the Philippines, it is ignorant to single out foreigners for special disciplinary treatment.


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  3. Dave_Hounddriver

    Dave_Hounddriver DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster

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    I can find no fault in what the article is saying. Many times I hear foreigners say that they drive like, park like or act like the locals but I do not think it right to act like locals who are doing wrong things.

    If we, foreigners, want to use the local people as our examples and do as they do then we should pick the best examples of moral, upstanding, Philippine citizens in Dumaguete and try to emulate them. Not try to follow the example of idiots and be idiots just like them.

    The low lifes will ruin it for those of us who enjoy being treated well here.
     
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  4. Anonymous

    Anonymous DI Member

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    So what about this? Well that sounds like me as a child whining to my mother; " But all the other kids are doing it". It never was a valid excuse for bad behaviour, at least not where I grew up.

    Lumping all foreigners together because of a few is not valid reasoning but the logic doesn't matter. What does matter is what the locals thing of us as a group.

    My experience with Filipinos in my home country is that they seldom get into any trouble and there are about 700,000 living thee. I think the statement is generally true.

    Regardless of what Pinoys do abroad is not an excuse for what some foreigners do in their host country.
     
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  5. Show Pony

    Show Pony DI Forum Patron Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer

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    from the article:
    "Councilor Cordova stressed that a strong message must be sent to all foreign nationals in the City of Gentle People, that since they are guests here, they must always abide by the rules and must not behave like royalty."

    I understand why the people here feel this way. When Filipinos work abroad some countries treat them like crap and they will not tolerate that treatment in their own back yard.

    "a strong message must be sent to all foreign nationals" So this will be the result of a few bad actors. Some people have no clue about the culture in this country so I will give you a hint. Arrogance is about the biggest "crime" you can commit. The locals dislike it when it comes from a fellow countryman and hate it when it comes from a guest.
     
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  6. AlwaysRt

    AlwaysRt DI Forum Patron Highly Rated Poster Blood Donor Veteran Air Force Marines

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    The particular dog that this particular foreigner in the photo kicked was a family pet on a leash wasn't it? Totally Not the same thing as the wild dogs running around all over the place that do get treated a bit.... rough...
     
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  7. ShawnM

    ShawnM DI Forum Patron ★ No Ads ★ Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer Blood Donor Veteran Air Force

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    I personally believe that folks acting foolish in the Philippines (or any other country for that matter) should be considered undesirable if the situation warrants it and be treated accordingly.

    I've spent 24 of my 48 years on this earth living and/or working outside of the US, some countries much more enjoyable than others, but I've learned if you don't get stupid (drink or temper) and treat people with respect you will get along fine most of the time. I think most people would agree that the Philippines has both it's good and bad points. I like to look at the positives but am well aware of the negatives.

    I've had very few issues with either locals or expats. Some of that is we live in Tanjay where many people know my wife or her family and there aren't many expats and they tend to keep to themselves. The few expats that I do socialize with are established in the Philippines (either full time or part time), have solid relationships and keep to themselves. Concentrating on family and their home may seem boring to some compared to running the streets but those are the folks I prefer to deal with as we have the same mind set.

    A thing I have noticed over the years, is that the folks that are most vocal seem to fall into 2 categories; disgruntled and complain for the sake of complaining and the one's that have on the "rose colored glasses" that think the Philippines is the perfect utopia and anyone that disagrees should "go home". Unfortunately it tends to be the same in most countries with expat communities.

    I am only part time in the Philippines as I am not ready to retire for good yet, I still enjoy work and want things set up better when that day does come. I do call the Philippines home and it is where I want to spend retirement with the family, with all the good and bad that comes with it.

    Shawn
     
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  8. tuba-coma

    tuba-coma DI Forum Adept Showcase Reviewer

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    if my opinion is a "uniquely filipino perspective", it's because I am a guest here and I try to understand my filipino hosts. every country in the world has written and unwritten laws, f.e. in Thailand you don't walk into your hosts house with street shoes. you will not get punished by law if you do so, but you will loose your face, like they say, means the people loose respect for you because you show no respect to them. this is exactly the mistake that many foreigners; short time visitors and long term expats do: they show no respect for this country. many lunatics with problems in their home country think they can do here what they want - they don't know the language of the philippines / visayas, they don't know anything about history, traditions, laws and culture of the filipinos and they don't want to know anything about it - I simply hate this attitude, specially when such people settle down here. f.e.; parking is not allowed anymore at the highway, so what's the problem? accept it and park somewhere else - it's a law and there is enough parking space anywhere here. if you cannot accept that, you are arrogant - and this is what filipinos don't like at all, and that's what the discussion is about: arrogant foreigners with this superior attitude. maybe, just my theorie; after centuries beeing occupied by foreign forces, they just don't want to get taught by foreigners anymore what to do and what not to do - they want to be respected for that what they are: filipinos. and, friendly and tolerant people as they are; they do not want to accept rude behaviour anymore. yes, I accept that 100%.
     
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  9. TheDude

    TheDude DI Forum Patron Highly Rated Poster

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    Some thoughts

    * I don't trust this site for news.

    * As we have seen in the past, "prepared" to "penalize" seems to result in little action.

    * It's strange that the city would make a special effort to penalize foreigners for things which currently don't seem to be enforced.

    * The city should start with _enforcement_ before deciding on penalties in special cases.

    * Bad behavior -> ??? -> deport!

    * Maybe the city could send someone to walk down the boulevard occaisionally to direct people with alcohol to move on? This was one incident I heard of, and it happened right after New Year's.

    * There are people with alcohol on the boulevard every night. There are a lot of places selling alchohol in the area and the boulevard gets a lot of traffic. It's no surprise that the dog kicker was on the boulevard. There's a list of simple management things the city could do before resorting to booting partying foreigners out of the country.

    * I suppose it does make some sense that in a city with a lack of action on enforcement, you might be considered for deportation if you attract attention. If someone has to put the cell phone down and drive off to deal with a ugly, strange talking drunk foreigner, then someone should get punished (or someone else should get paid off.) If your jungle dwelling activities require a civilized response, then prepare for trouble!

    * There is nothing to see here. The FB groups which posted the news of this "dog kicker" are the same groups which post gore photos traffic accidents. How is that for moral fiber? Now this questionable site has posted a waste of time article.
     
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  10. Dave_Hounddriver

    Dave_Hounddriver DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster

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    OK, I'm wrong. Yes I can find fault. Its been working on me. The whole article revolves around a picture of:

    "A Swedish man takes a drink while being questioned about kicking a dog"

    What has been bothering me is that a local filipino would very, very, very often take a drink then hop onto his motorcycle or into his car and run over a dog without a thought.

    How is that more acceptable than taking a drink, on a street with back to back resto-bars selling alcohol, and kicking a mongrel whose owner lets him wander freely on the street?

    It may not be the right thing to do, and the rest of the article makes some valid points, but they did not start on the moral high ground with that picture and explanation.
     
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