Best Posts in Thread: Liberty

The difference is that if you decide to drink, smoke, or go sky diving ... you are making a decision to take that risk for yourself. But if you ignore quarantine, face mask, and social distancing rules then you are creating a risk to me. Mitigation efforts are the only thing preventing the number of deaths from being 10 or 20 times greater than they are now. Cooperating with the rest of society to combat a pandemic by complying with mitigation efforts is no more giving up your freedom than is joining the military to fight for your country. Both are temporary voluntary surrender of some limited number of freedoms for the overall benefit of the whole of society. Calling participating in mitigation efforts to be chains and slavery and abandoning your liberty is really hyperbolic and overly dramatic nonsense.

 

I wrote my comment in a very full awareness of viral infections and epidemiology - but these conditions also existed before any quarantines were in place. In fact, open airport and shipping port, absence of face masks by most people and other factors means it was more dangerous THEN than NOW.

Under your MO, it will be months or years before any RISK (this means there is a calculated chance that something could go wrong) could be taken.

What I suggest is going back to the time when the virus was already around but when there were more risk factors. Many areas survived that very well - I don't lightly regard anyone's life as worthless (including the aged!) but the current situation could result in an increase in deaths due to factors outlined many times before here (lack of hospital visits by the sick, deterioration of physical and mental health, possible malnutrition to name just a few) and the destruction of businesses and jobs.

You may recall I was the first to advise here to wear face masks and eye protection and was probably one of the first to self-isolate (even before GCQ) so I am not a Covidiot asking to risk losing hundreds of lives just to see what happens. I have thought about the current situation, how it relates to the past situation and what happened at that time, the opportunities to go back a step if necessary. At the time the virus arrived I argued against those who said to just let the virus take its course - but now I feel the situation is different and a risk needs to be taken (with safeguards).

 

Were I 60 plus and in a position where I might die if I don't go out, for a myriad of reasons (boredom, depression, the spouse, hunger, illness), I'd certainly go out and be prepared to face the repercussions.

I saw a 64 year old man turned away from entering a mall here in the Philippines, that happens to stay at the same hotel I do. I asked him why and he told me he was over the age limit of 59. As the guards told him no, dozens of other potential vectors walked right by him into the mall. Was he protected? Did he make a choice? If he's there at the mall, not letting him in isn't protecting him. I asked him if he needed anything, that I'd be happy to help and he said, "No, I really just wanted to walk around inside."

 

Checkpoint at malls, never seen any in Dumaguete only a guard. If he/she ask me for my documents I would say to him they, are in my car wait a while Sir. I will go and get them, then drive away.

 

A number of people seem to contend that a potential victim staying at home doesn't prevent them from getting this disease, but if everyone else stays home, that will work.

 

No. Two cargo handlers and one driver are allowed with each truck. For a total of three people. They come across on the ferry with the truck then drive around town and offload their stuff.

There was one incidence that I know of where one of the cargo handlers was actually a passenger and went to his home in Dumaguete. The neighbors ratted him out and he had to spend 14 days in quarantine at the city quarantine center.

After this, the allotted time they were allowed to get back to the ferry terminal was shortened. I did not read any consequences for leaving the cargo handlers. Hopefully there are consequences for the driver. (What a great side business.)

No. Often, it is impossible to clamp down immediately because the sick do not always show enough symptoms to alert the health authorities. There are many situations where the virus starts spreading without anyone knowing.

First, Filipinos are mostly young. The average age is 25. People in this age group typically have mild symptoms or are asymptomatic. If they get sick they can easily spread it to others without going to the hospital to get tested. They would be thinking that they just had a cold or not feel anything at all. Meanwhile they would be infecting others.

Second there are situations where one person can infect a large number of people. Particularly in wet places. (Wet fish markets, pork packing plants are a problem in the USA, etc.) Water/moisture keeps the virus intact and spreads it around. One person was able to infect 533 other people in a fish plant in Ghana.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/11/ghana-president-coronavirus-outbreak-at-fish-factory.html

Negros Oriental got lucky in that the people who were found to have been infected were older (travelers) and exhibited severe symptoms. (at least 2 of 6 died) all of them but one spent time in the hospital.

If a young asymptomatic (or mild symptoms) carrier went to the the wet market for awhile the number of people infected could easily overwhelm the local resources for contact tracing. We would end up like Cebu, unable to stifle the outbreak with contact tracing and isolation.

 

Hey All,

I just posted this on my Facebook wall and thought it would be appropriate here as well. It would be nice if this could be a place where people could disagree and not want to bash someone over there opinion. My post follows:

There's so much turmoil between people that want freedom and those that want to avoid death, at any cost. I believe many of these Americans, indeed, people all over the world, some are calling stupid, merely believe as Patrick Henry did when he stated on March 23, 1775:

"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"

Some may call people stupid for wanting liberty, but isn't it worse to avoid living, for fear of dying? 100% of all people born, die.

How many of you sky dive, ride motorcycles, sunbathe, smoke, drink to excess, or a multitude of other activities some consider dangerous? Are we all supposed to consider a shopping trip to the mall in the same light as sky diving? Do our liberties need to expire as we age?

Desiring liberty is the very thing that gave birth to the United States of America and I can't consider anyone wanting liberty to be stupid. Hopefully your mind can change too.