I doubt they will be able to cope with your reply! Perhaps 3 words would be their limit. But good on you for pointing out the legal position as you see it - but convincing Filipinos? I've seen too many examples of where they are right on everything and aliens must obey.
Marriage Visa Best Posts in Thread: Change in Notarization Requirements for Legal Capacity to Contract Marriage
Notmyrealname DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer
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As I understand the U.S. Consulate notification, you can now make and submit a notarized affidavit that you are not married with any notary. In the Philippines, that means any attorney who also holds a notary license. Apparently, the U.S. has finally persuaded the Philippines that it, the U.S. Federal government, has no list of married Americans (such as the Philippines has, for filipinos, through the National Statistics Authority). So give it a try. Go to a lawyer, get a notarized statement, and take it to your local government unit to obtain a marriage license. Let us know how it goes.
By the way, the legal charge for notarization of a document is P200. But if the attorney has to produce (or download) the document, they can charge you a legal research fee.
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Okay so I have the full information on getting the Apostille from Nevada clarified.
My biggest concern was them needing an original signature not a copy. Normally I'd PDF the documents and email them, and have someone print them up and mail them. I was told someone in Las Vegas could sign the order form. However, since I'm sending a signed payment checklist, that signature might need to be original too. I'll check the form to make sure.
From there it's a tossup. I can have the company that ships my US purchases to me here ship the document back to the US to mail. This would allow me to enclose the certified decrees I already have eliminating the need to order more certified copies.
Or I can email the PDFs and have someone there sign the order, and have them wait for new certified copies to arrive then mail everything.
Even though shipping from here is a little more expensive, I would prefer not needing to deal with the court for more certified decrees . Their services take too long, and they seem to not understand why I would need additional copies.
I won't pay for expedite processing either. Don't want to shell out the additional $75 expedite fee. I figure I'll get 3 copies Apostillized instead. One for PSA, in case they can update the CENOMAR with it; one for the marriage license bureau, and one additional copy just in case another agency needs it.
I'll work on the documents later.
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It's hardly splitting hairs, Mike. We're talking about two totally different words. Apostille is the official term used for Authenticating a document for use in other countries. It is usually issued by the country the document originated from.
Apostatizing is the act of giving up one's religion, or cause. Read the definition.
The international community has called the process of authenticating foreign documents Apostille since 1961 when the Hague Apostille Convention was formed.
Apostatizing is a religious term which has nothing to do with the law. The secular definition means giving up one's loyalty to his or her country, or, even abandoning a sports team.
However, there's no legal definition associating it with authenticating foreign documents.
Something else I learned was that, according to the DFA, the term Red Ribboning WAS still being used right up until the Philippines joined the convention.
Perhaps the local bakery chain "Red Ribbon" simply didn't like their name being used in connection with divorces; similar to Hormel's official objection to the use of their Spam brand to signify unwanted email and junk mail. Both companies felt it would hurt business.
So, maybe Red Ribboning was unofficially stopped, and the Apostatizing term was chosen for the Religious reasons I've already mentioned, AND because the two words Apostatize and Apostille sounded enough alike to confuse people, and to make their procedure sound legitimate.
For more info on Apostille, go to either the DFA'S website here, or the website for the Secretary of State of your home state if you're from the US.
If you're not from the US, then I have no idea what catchy term your country uses at home to authenticate their documents, but the international community officially calls it an Apostille, despite what some person called it when you asked them.
It's interesting to note that, while the UK IS a member of the convention, Canada is NOT, so they can designate their own form of authorization, and call it whatever they want.
There are still some countries who are simply not interested in the rest of the world (such as Canada), so they have chosen not to join the Convention. Getting a Foreign document accepted in those countries is like fighting an uphill battle.
The Philippines did not become a member of the convention until 2019. So if someone from the Philippines called it Apostatizing, it was probably before 2019, and it was the way the church could have a little, self-righteous laugh at your expense.
This use of the term Apostatize sounds similar to "the Scarlet Letter" (also similar to the mark of Cain) whereby, in the old days the elders would literally paint a red letter "A" on an adulterers forehead for the whole world to see.
Therefore, "Apostatizing" a foreign divorce decree was, probably, their secret form of a 'scarlet letter' branding you an adulterer. Think of grade school where someone would tape a sign saying "kick me" to the back of the victim's shirt.
The current administration made sure the Philippines was a member country to eliminate private individuals taking it upon themselves to create their own phony methods of Authentication. I'm guessing it is probably a part of the Anti Fixer campaign. After all, how could someone in the Philippines authenticate a legal document from the US?
Here are the official definitions I'm referring to:
"Apostatize definition, to commit apostasy"
"Apostasy (/əˈpɒstəsi/; Greek: ἀποστασία apostasía, "a defection or revolt") is the formal disaffiliation from, abandonment of, or renunciation of a religion by a person. It can also be defined within the broader context of embracing an opinion that is contrary to one's previous religious beliefs. One who undertakes apostasy is known as an apostate. Undertaking apostasy is called apostatizing (or apostasizing – also spelled apostacizing)
Occasionally, the term is also used metaphorically to refer to the renunciation of a non-religious belief or cause, such as a political party, social movement, or sports team."
The Hague Convention Abolishing the Requirement of Legalisation for Foreign Public Documents, the Apostille Convention, or the Apostille Treaty, is an international treaty drafted by the Hague Conference on Private International Law. It specifies the modalities through which a document issued in one of the signatory countries can be certified for legal purposes in all the other signatory states. A certification under the terms of the convention is called an apostille or Hague apostille. It is an international certification comparable to a notarisation in domestic law, and normally supplements a local notarisation of the document. If the convention applies between two countries, such an apostille is sufficient to certify a document's validity, and removes the need for double-certification, by the originating country and then by the receiving country.
Apostilles are affixed by Competent Authorities designated by the government of a state which is party to the convention. A list of these authorities is maintained by the Hague Conference on Private International Law. Examples of designated authorities are embassies, ministries, courts or (local) governments.
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Okay, here is the definitive answer regarding the Affidavit directly from the US Embassy:
“Thank you for your email regarding the Affidavit in Lieu of the Certificate of Legal Capacity to Contract Mariage. The Affidavit is a self-certification and can be written in any form that contains the necessary information. You can find samples with the basic information on the internet, but we recommend contacting the Local Government Unit (LGU) where you intend to get married to ask for their specific requirements. These requirements vary slightly throughout the Philippines”
Unfortunately this does not clearly states how many prior marriages must be listed. The two best answers to this question I have received are 1) Just the last one as every marriage/divorce automatically proves the validity of the one preceding it.
2) Same as answer as #1 plus any marriages that were solemnized in the Philippines, or will show up on your CENOMAR as the marriages on your CENOMAR need explanations.
Also, your Affidavit will be considered to be an “Affidavit in Lieu of the Certificate of Legal Capacity to Contract Marriage”
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I made what I hope is the final modification of the Affidavit to only include the one marriage that will show up on a CENOMAR. I also added the exact wording from Article 26 of the Family Code so there can be no question that the divorce is supported by the article.
On a funny note, it was actually more difficult to anonymize this Affidavit than it was to write the original
Taking cues from what I've read that a Recognition of Divorce case would require, I included the same authorities as well as where to locate the statutes.
Specifically, an ROD case would want proof that both the court and the judge had the legal right to hear, rule and grant Divorces, and that the divorce itself allowed remarriage.
One would assume that a divorce decree that clearly states that both parties have all the rights of single, unmarried persons would be sufficient, to allow marrying again, but, unfortunately, some judges would love to argue that the sky wasn't really blue; it only appears to be blue because of the diffraction of the sunlight though the various chemical elements in the atmosphere, and the angle of the light as we view it.... Yadda yadda yadda...
Therefore I included two additional statutes; the first was the qualifications to get married where I'm from, and, since it said "without a living spouse" I added the US CODE'S LEGAL DEFINITION OF "SPOUSE". [SEE, YOUR HONOR, BY DEFINITION, THE SKY REALLY IS BLUE WITH
OR WITHOUT ANY DIFFRACTION!]
I'll either add the name of the Filipina later, or just put it on the license application, since it isn't really necessary to be part of this particular Affidavit, as I would have the right to marry any single Filipina over 18 by mutual consent of both parties.
Any suggestions other than being too literal (and long)? (I'm always very literal when it comes to any type of court document. I also make sure to repeat any special verbage found in statutes. After all, English is an unusually vague language )
I, (Affiant) , a citizen of the United States of America, of legal age, single, and a resident of City, State, USA, and the holder of US PASSPORT #xxxxxxxxxx, Expiry date: xx XXX 20xx, after having been duly sworn in accordance with law, hereby depose and say:
1. I have no legal impediments to prevent me from contracting marriage in the Philippines with a single Filipino woman, in accordance with the Family Code of the Philippines as I am currently Divorced, and legally free to marry again.
2. My recent marriage was to a Filipina in City, Province, Philippines on Sunday, 01 Month 20xx. This exact same marriage appears on my current CENOMAR.
3. The above-mentioned marriage has subsequently been wholly dissolved by a divorce validly obtained abroad in my home country; Divorce case #XXXXXX filed and granted by the Divorce Court in City of ????, County of ????, State of ????, USA, by Divorce Court Judge ???? ????? on XX Month, 20??.
4. The Divorce Court in City of ????, of ????, State of ????, USA, and Divorce Court Judge ???? ????? both have the legal authority to grant divorces in accordance with State law as laid out in the STATE LAW TITLE ?? “DOMESTIC LAW”, CHAPTER XXX, DIVORCE: DIVORCE”, LAW #123.123 “Court may grant divorce...” and LAW #123.133 “Decree of divorce final and absolute”. [https://www.leg.state.XX.us/LAW/123.html]
4. Divorce Decree case #XXXXXX further states that said marriage is “wholly dissolved and both parties are hereby restored to the rights and privileges of single, unmarried persons”. In accordance with STATE LAW TITLE ?? - DOMESTIC LAW; CHAPTER XXX - MARRIAGE, LAW #123.023, “two persons, regardless of gender, who are at least 18 years of age, not nearer of kin than second cousins or cousins of the half blood, and not having a spouse living, may be joined in marriage.” [https://www.leg.state.XX.us/LAW/123.html]
5. Additionally, in Accordance with 1 U.S. Code § 7 - Definition of “marriage” and “spouse”: “the word “spouse” only refers to a person who is a husband or a wife.” Single, unmarried persons have no spouses. [https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/1/7]
6. Therefore, in accordance with the Family Code of the Philippines, ARTICLE 26, Divorce case #XXXXXX which was filed, ruled upon, and granted in the STATE OF ????, USA is a divorce which was validly obtained abroad and has wholly dissolved said marriage, and, as per the decree, the status of the Affiant has been officially restored to that of a single person who is free to marry again.
7. A certified copy of said Divorce Decree accompanies this Affidavit. URL Links to the foreign authorities listed within this affidavit appear immediately after each authority.
Further Affiant sayeth none.
Blah blah blah
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