Another Malaysia Plane Down

It doesn't show here but just for me, please check the original Post I made.

Wyre, I never give out neg reps to anyone, if you go back to page 7 you will see how, I suggested, that a thumbs down can be given in a header to a post, as an addition to my earlier post. I agree entirely with you comments:D

 

It's now over two weeks after the incident and no conclusive findings have been published, I now read this article that has a lot of questions and a few answers...


Something Sinister Going On?
The Unanswered Questions of MH17
By Mike Whitney

“Recent history has repeatedly proven that nothing said by Washington and its officials should be accepted at face value. No other government in the world has been implicated in so many egregious lies as the United States.” Bill Van Auken, “US lies and hypocrisy on Gaza and Ukraine“, World Socialist Web Site

"It’s all just more outlandish speculation intended to smear Russia. There’s a great article in the Wall Street Journal by journalist Paul Sonne titled “After Flight 17 Crash, Agony, Debris and Heartbreak in Ukraine Villages” that dispels a lot of the lies that have popped up in the media in the last couple weeks. First of all, the rebels have not prevented inspectors from accessing the site (as Kerry claims) Here’s Sonne in an interview on NPR’s “All Things Considered” on Wednesday:

“The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe has actually gotten very good access to the site with the exception of the first day they showed up, which was the day after the crash where their time there was limited to 75 minutes, and they said that they weren’t given access to every piece of the crash site that they had wanted to see. So after the sort of first day standoff that they experienced with some of the rebel militants, it did seem like they were getting pretty full access to the crash site. The problem was that the investigation team, which is now being led by the Netherlands, wasn’t ready and didn’t, in fact, really arrive in Donetsk until a few days ago. And after they finally assembled in Donetsk, it took, you know, about a week or more. Then, fighting had already started to encompass the crash site. And the reason that they’re not getting access to the crash site now is not because the rebels are not allowing them to go to the crash site. It’s because the crash site has turned into an active, violent fighting zone.”

So the inspectors have had access to the site the whole time except just recently when US-backed goons from the Ukrainian army resumed hostilities in violation of their promise to honor a temporary ceasefire. It sounds like Kiev might have something they want to hide at the crash site, doesn’t it?

Meanwhile, according to the Independent, “John Kerry accused the separatists of displaying “an appalling disrespect for human decency” in carrying on fighting close to the area.”

Is Kerry lying again or is he just confused about the facts?

As far as the looting and drunken disrespect for the corpses of the victims; that’s all BS too. Sonne paints an entirely different picture of what took place on the ground. Just check out some of his description and see if it squares with Kerry’s breakdown:

“The plane’s cockpit and dozens of bodies plummeted into Rozsypne, about 2 miles from Petropavlivka. One body fell through a woman’s roof. A pilot strapped to a seat wound up next to a flight attendant in a nearby field. …Charred remains of an engine, landing gear and wings fell in a fireball next to Hrabove, with a tumbling storm cloud of at least 70 bodies, some of them largely intact…

No villagers on the ground died, but they are scared of what they might find next…

“We thought it was the end of the world,” the Orthodox priest says. He stayed on the ground in prayer, preparing to meet God, and then ran up the hill as burning pieces of the plane’s undercarriage and landing gear pelted a field like bombs. Then came a hail of bodies: arms, heads and fingers.

Farmers dashed to the village, afraid it would be engulfed by an inferno. Hrabove Mayor Vladimir Berezhnoi screamed at drivers and motorcyclists to get off the road as fire rolled across a field. When he saw bodies, Mr. Berezhnoi yelled at adults to take their children home.

A few miles away, Oleg Miroshnichenko, a retired miner who became the mayor of Rozsypne about 13 years ago, felt panic as he heard two loud blasts and watched the remains of about 40 passengers rain down on yards and homes. His phone started ringing off the hook.

“There’s a body here, a body there, another body,” he says…

“In mines, you don’t remove a body until they investigate it,” he says.

Villagers and emergency workers decided to start bagging bodies that were rotting in the sun. Local miners joined the effort. Heartbroken residents had been pleading in tears for the bodies’ removal.” (“After Flight 17 Crash, Agony, Debris and Heartbreak in Ukraine Villages“, Wall Street Journal)

See? These people were deeply traumatized by the experience, they weren’t throwing bodies around and disrespecting the dead. That’s pure bunkum, just like the claims that Russia has been firing rounds into Ukraine is bunkum. Just like the leaflets ordering “Jews to register or face deportation” were bunkum. It’s all bunkum. For whatever reason, the State Department doesn’t give a rip about its credibility anymore. They’ll say just about anything as long as they can skewer Moscow."

The Unanswered Questions of MH17

Malaysian Boeing disaster ? Russia?s questions to Ukraine ? RT Russian politics

 

Quoting World Socialist Web Site, is null.

The quote "it did seem like they were getting pretty full acess to the crash site" is not news reporting it's opinion. You would not be trying to purport an opinion piece as news ?

I have to ask myself the question, does it really matter how long it took ro assemble the entire team? And does that change the fact that the first responders were restricted? Which is fact, not opinion.

 

......"See? These people were deeply traumatized by the experience, they weren’t throwing bodies around and disrespecting the dead. That’s pure bunkum, just like the claims that Russia has been firing rounds into Ukraine is bunkum. Just like the leaflets ordering “Jews to register or face deportation” were bunkum. It’s all bunkum. For whatever reason, the State Department doesn’t give a rip about its credibility anymore. They’ll say just about anything as long as they can skewer Moscow.".......

Sad that you apparently cannot differentiate between ordinary people (villagers) and the thrash that runs around there in semi-military outfits, heavily armed and masked to prevent recognition: the so-called Freedom Fighters. Maybe time to select another source for your information. Just make sure you select one that is at least un-biased and of a slightly higher standard than The Huffington Post....
Vicmico

 

Sorry to disturb again, this is an interesting(WARNING World Socialist Web Site)article with many links about many proofs but the really revelant one is this: "Chief of the Russian Land Forces’ tactical air defense troops Maj. Gen. Mikhail Krush said he doubts that the Malaysian passenger liner was brought down by a Buk surface-to-air missile system. “No one observed a Buk engaging targets in that region on that day, which provides 95 percent proof that Buk systems were not used in this concrete case,” the general said in an interview with the Voyenno-Promyshlenny Kuryer military weekly to be published on Wednesday [July 30th]. ”This is no more than a theory for now. However, a guided missile launched by a Buk missile system leaves behind a specific smoke trail as it flies, like a comet. In daylight this trail can be clearly seen within a radius of 20-25 kilometers from the missile system. It cannot remain unnoticed. There are no eyewitnesses to confirm there was any. No one reported a launch. This is one thing,” he said. “Second. The holes left by the strike elements on the Boeing’s outer skin indicate that the warhead blew up from below and sideways. A Buk missile strikes the target from above,” he said. “The damage done to the plane suggests that a different missile was used. Our guidance method is a zoom, when the missile strikes the target from above covering it with a thick cloud of fragments” the general said. “I cannot state categorically, guided by this data, but I can suggest, using my experience, that it was not a Buk missile that hit the Boeing,” the expert said."

Evidence Is Now Conclusive: Two Ukrainian Government Fighter-Jets Shot Down Malaysian Airlines MH17.
"

 

WARNING...Satelite image from the crash site...

Satellite image of the debris field near Hrabove - The Washington Post

 

The author doesn't know what he is talking about, did not consult the right people. "Machine guns" [ rotary cannon ] on fighter jets do not have magazines in the sense he is describing because there is nobody to climb out and change them while in flight, lol, although what was shown in the picture looked like 14.5 mm heavy machine gun fire, it did not happen to a plane flying at 30,000 feet. It was not 30mm He, Ap, incendiary rounds that did that. If it were 30mm He, it would have entered the plane before it exploded and the projectiles possible 750M/s velocity would be overridden by the explosives 6k, M/s propagation speed so the "bullet" [projectile] (lol) enters from one direction but you have exits in all directions. The experts requiring 2 fighters because of exit holes shows their lack of knowledge.

Just from the terminology used I can tell the experts are not experts. The reconstruction of events to involve a simultaneous attack by two fighter jets is rediculous. The odds of a second fighter jet accidentally shooting down the other fighter jet in the scenario would be massively greater than the second fighter jet actually being needed to shoot down a commercial passenger aircraft. Lol.

Need I say that conjecture piled on top of conjecture proves nothing? The fact that nobody living in a war zone bothered to report the trail of a missile? Who would they report it to? Ever think of that? Why would you want to bring yourself to the attention of people who have missles to fire? What would that get you?

To the best of my knowledge, there are no missiles that are so picky that they will wait until they are in perfect position before they will detonate, as they would be worthless in combat with an enemy who does not cooperate, so I would discount what the expert on Russian missiles says. Use some common sense.

 

ATC ( Air traffic Control)

As an Investigator, I would be more, than insistent, to view the ATC logs for the 5 min ( maybe 10, would be better) period before impact.
All Commercial Aircraft are fitted with a Near Miss Distance System, this means, that anything, approaching within 1000 meters from any angle, of the aircraft would activate the System and Alert ATC of the occurrence.
Now if anyone is going to tell me that ATC was wIthdrawn because of Military Aircraft Presence it only goes to show my Original Statement The Aircraft should never, have been there in the first Place. was the right one. There is a d*mn sight more, to this, than meets the eye and I believe that ATC logs would give up vital clues but like a lot of things, they go missing.


JP

 

Thanks for the level-headed replys, yes, this are extraordinary times, imagine this kind of information warfare going on, it's brainwashing everybody, frying ones nerves(yes, the frayed ones too)and make us argue with no end, this is the new Babel in the way that one can not believe anything anymore...