Attorney Frank Miguel

That is your opinion. as i said before each one has their own way of viewing things. you have yours i have mine as well and so do the others.

 

Thank you. We are all civilized people here at least i think so, there is no need for trash talking, there is so much anger in the world as it is, so why don't we bring a lil sunshine here and there and spread the love! as Robert Tew would say: " Your feelings of anger and resentment only hurts YOU! Remember you feel it, not them."

 

Time is always a good test

There is quite a discussion on who is what here. If you have been a member for over 90 days, you have probably seen some "shill" posts previously and understand clearly what Wrye83 is trying to say. Experience and relationships build reputations. Reputations (good or bad) are earned through time, not just given out immediately on the forum just as in most parts of society. Let the Attorney earn his appropriate reputation,by letting the members speak up about their experiences not arguing over the validity of their experience. It would seem appropriate not to force a reputation on him with limited personal experiences or even comments from just a few members.

Although I have never experienced this attorney, I have had the experience of being quoted 10,000 to 20,000 P for notarizing a document by attorneys, based solely on the fact I was a foreigner. For those that need something notarized, I found the attorney services above the Immigration offices quite effective in notarizing the same document that I was quoted on for 200 P fee ONLY.

 

For a simple straightforward notarizing, 200 - 500 PHP seems to be the range in my experience. Then I guess the question is, what is the definition of "simple and straightforward", versus - not ?

Is the higher fee based on a more complex and higher responsibility - legally, notarize ?

I don't know, and maybe many others may not know that either, here in Phil ?

 

There is a difference between notarizing an existing document and asking a notary to make a document, for instance a deed of sale.
For an existing document (deed of sale, marriage contract) you may count on a price between 1,500 and 3,000 pesos.
If you ask a notary to make a deed of sale based on a xerox of a tittle the price can be very different based on the research work that the notary has to do.
If you bring your own deed of sale, the notary will control if the text is conform the law but will not give you any guaranty that this document will materialise in a tittle.
The same for a notarized marriage contract, the notary will not guaranty you that this marriage will be successful.O--O

 

While part of what you say is true, one must also keep in mind that many pop up on the forum to spam for a business or give a reference for their friends, and then you never see or hear from them again. This would make it appear that their agenda is purely selfish, whereas someone who has many posts and gives good straight honest answers on a regular basis has earned a little more respect.

Which lawyer would you trust more to win your case, Gerry Spence, or someone fresh out of law school who has never won a case? (may I suggest Google before answering this one)

Larry

 

The fee I was quoted by the good atty in question (P6000) was for simply notarizing a deed of sale on an automobile, which was already drawn up. This would have taken less than 5 minutes of his time, and the service is nothing more than witnessing the signature of a document, which again we got done downtown for P200. We are often involved in automotive deeds of sale, and have a standard form from an online website dealing with Philippine legal forms (the same place many attys. get their standard forms). we also pay P200 in Cebu.

The Atty in question here is now reading this forum, perhaps he can tell us how he (and some other local attorneys) justifies charging so much? Say I bring you a deed of sale on an auto to be notarized tomorrow, you don't have to edit it, all you have to do is notarize it. How much do you now charge to notarize an automotive deed of sale (witnessing signature)?

In the USA, the maximum fee for notarizing a document (does not apply to drawing up documents) allowed by law is $10 (P400). So why is a Philippine notary's fees worth so much more than a notary in the USA, where other lawyer services are 10+ times higher?

It seems only an Attorney can give us the answer. Some may charge us P200 to answer this question, while others may charge us P100,000, and have to be represented by counsel.

I have nothing against Atty Miguel, I found he was polite and friendly. I just question his (and others) pricing structure. He is certainly not the only one who practices this way here.

Larry

 

Nice Thread, curious of what comes next...

 

Hi guys, let us make this clear. FYI, the Integrated Bar of the Philippines Negros Oriental Chapter has a resolution prescribing the Notarial Rates and other fees for handling cases. Anyone can ask a copy of that from the IBP Office at the Hall of Justice, Dumaguete City. The minimum prescribed rate for the sale or any conveyance or transfer of anything (vehicles, house and lot, etc.) is 1,000 or 3% of its value/consideration whichever is higher. There are even lawyers who ask for 5% or more and some ask less than 3%. The rates depend upon the lawyer and the kind of document to be notarized or to be prepared.

You know guys, notarizing a document is not just simply affixing our signature on the document. There is more than that. It makes the document public, authentic and binding to third persons. Some papers are required to be notarized to be effective. When we verify the identity of persons signing the document, we instill greater confidence in the legality of the notarized documents and act as a deterrent to fraudulent act. That is why if a client brings a ready-made document for notarization, lawyers don't guarantee them the full validity of the document. In my case I prefer to edit the ready-made document if necessary before notarizing it. Remember, the rule is, the lawyer who notarizes the document is presumed to be the one who made the document. I’ll better make it my way rather than notarizing a defective or unsatisfactory document and to be blamed by clients later on. I am not stupid to ruin my reputation. Ask first not judge.

Here is something to reflect on: A Judge only decides the case after hearing both parties.

 

Thank you for your response. I was unaware of this "minimum" as set forth by the Philippine bar. It is interesting to note that the "minimum" as set forth by the Philippine bar is 250% of the MAXIMUM allowable in the United States for the same service. It would seem that these other attorneys that charge only P200 for a notary are operating illegally, I will look into this for my own interest.

It is well known that many local attorneys don't care if the person whose signature they are witnessing is even in the country at the time. Sorry, but this fact does not "instill greater confidence in the legality of the notarized documents and act as a deterrent to fraudulent act."

If you think attorneys here are responsible for their actions, perhaps quite a number of foreigners who have been ripped off by local attorneys should be coming to you to file suit against these other attorneys, as it seems there are quite a number who write up illegal contacts on a daily basis, and take huge sums of money and do nothing, because they know that the foreigner cannot easily bring legal repercussions against them. If one goes to another attorney to file a complaint against attorney 1, attorney 2 will happily take their money too, and do nothing! These lawyers which seem to be in the majority do not guarantee much of anything.

So on a vehicle sale of P200,000, you do not refute the fact that you charge 3% (P6000), when legally you could charge as little as P1000 and still earn more in 10 minutes than most local Filipinos earn in a week?

This also does not instill much confidence in the system here.

Larry