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Bad news for expats in Thailand

Discussion in 'Banking - Investing - Finances' started by NowandThen, Sep 18, 2023.

  1. NowandThen

    NowandThen DI Forum Adept Restricted Account

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    https://aseannow.com/topic/1306896-...-from-abroad-for-tax-residents-starting-2024/

    Let's hope the Philippjnes will not do the same. Actually it was once discussed in the congress some years ago. But lucky enough nothing happened. But I also think the Philippines and probably Thailand as well, don't have the administrative skills to collect these taxes to a full extent. Except perhaps regular pensions that are transferred from abroad to a Philippine bank account.

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    Last edited: Sep 18, 2023
  2. Crystalhead

    Crystalhead ADMIN Admin ★ Forum Moderator ★ ★ Global Mod ★ ★ Moderator ★ ★★ Forum Sponsor ★★ ★ No Ads ★ Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer Veteran Army

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    LOL...................Again, this is why I will always just have a Tourist Visa and I mean for ever, always. I have said it so many times. They want that permanent status as an Expat, well that requires you to have a TIN Number (Tax Identification Number) Philippines and about all other Asian Countries. Go ahead, get that TIN Number and see where the Rabbit hole ends. Tourist Visa, you cannot work, you cannot earn, and money you wire to yourself cannot be taxed because you have no TIN Number nor is it required! Who cares about Thailand anyways, it's a dump and it's Government is the top of the dump pile. Been so for a very long time. Xenophobic up-side down, backwards DUMP. I hope there is an Exodus of Expats, after all, that's what they really want anyways!
     
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  3. Chriscraft

    Chriscraft DI Member

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    I don't think this will affect so many foreigners in Thailand though. There are "Double-tax" agreements with most western countries anyway. https://www.rd.go.th/english/766.html

    There are also financial loop holes because of the new type of internet based, international banks (NEO-banks) available. My pension goes straight into the oldest one of them, Revolut and I do practically all money transactions through them since 2019.
     
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  4. Show Pony

    Show Pony DI Forum Patron Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer

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    Thailand's Revenue Department is likely to derail before the train even leaves the station.
    The sub headline:
    Thailand’s revenue departments has released new guidelines which will see all income from abroad taxed as personal income tax regardless of whether it was earned income or savings.
    Surely this tax grab has not been thought out.
    It suggests that tourist's that send money from abroad will be taxed. At least that's my read on their statement.
    Would they apply this tax to all foreign ATM transactions? Would Western Union or similar cash points be taxed?
    There are a lot of questions about their plan. I'm assuming most foreigners living in Thailand are there as tourists.

    I have my Canadian pension deposited directly to a Philippine bank. If my memory is correct I had to get a TIN number to open the accounts. A TIN is needed so the bank can remit 25% of the interest income on your account to the tax man.

    There is a Tax Treaty between Canada and the Philippines. It contains the usual dual taxation stuff for earned income. Pension income is treated differently. Canadian Pensions are taxed in Canada and Philippine Pensions are taxed in the Philippines.
     
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  5. Chriswlan

    Chriswlan DI Junior Member

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    Hehe, yes taxed in Canada....
    What about the mandatory quarter of said pension that does NOT leave canada? Retained from the top, as some sort of income tax deposit or other..... Da ol "paygo" alibi....

    Do you ever see any of that big chunk back?

    Another reason to instead be a "Forever Tourist"?
     
  6. Show Pony

    Show Pony DI Forum Patron Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer

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    If you file an NR5 forum requesting a reduction in withholding taxes they deductions will be reduced from 25% to 5%. Here's that applicable section of the Tax Treaty:

    Article XVIII
    Pensions and Annuities
    1. Pensions and annuities arising in a Contracting State and paid to a resident of the other Contracting State shall be taxable only in the Contracting State in which they arise.


    When you file your annual tax return you should get your 5% withholding taxes back assuming your World Wide Income is low enough not to pay taxes.

    On the 13a ACR-I card it says the card serves as a re-entry permit. I assume this means you have a "right" to enter the Philippines. As a tourist when you present yourself at the boarder you could get refused entry if the BI officer is having a bad day.

    An aside, when the Canadian Pension people direct deposit Pesos to my Peso Account the money arrives as Pesos so there is no banking charge on the Philippine end. The Canadian Goverment uses a banking service to convert the dollars to pesos at a fairly good exchange rate.

    With a 13a visa you can get an ECC (exit clearance certificate) at the airport. There is an annual report fee of 310 pesos so no more multiple trips to the BI who can refuse to renew your tourist visa on a whim. No more need for an "ongoing ticket" when you come back to Paradise. These are my top 3 reasons for having a 13a visa.
     
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  7. cabb

    cabb DI Forum Patron Highly Rated Poster ✤Forum Sponsor✤

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    Is investment income treated the same as earned income between two different countries? Say you don't have a pension.
    Is Social Security considered earned income?
     
  8. Dutchie

    Dutchie DI Senior Member Showcase Reviewer Veteran Army

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    Even the definition of "investment income" differs between countries. The Netherlands has no Capital Gains Tax, so only interest and dividends are considered investment income.

    Then also not all Tax Treaties between countries are created equal. The Netherlands has been trying to renegotiate their existing Tax Treaty with the Philippines for at least 10 years. The current treaty dates back to 1989 and is based on the OECD recommended text from that time. The agreed Treaty therefore only allows income tax to be applied to the State Pension (Social Security) by The Netherlands. Private Pensions are taxable only by the Philippines (and the Philippines doesn't tax foreign income).
     
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