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Chinese Vaccine

Discussion in 'COVID-19' started by SkipJack, Nov 21, 2020.

  1. Crystalhead

    Crystalhead ADMIN Admin ★ Forum Moderator ★ ★ Global Mod ★ ★ Moderator ★ ★★ Forum Sponsor ★★ ★ No Ads ★ Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer Veteran Army

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    Family member back in USA whom is a Nurse got a mandatory Pfizer vaccine (to keep her employment)...... sure.... that was not forced...MEHHH.

    Anyways.... she just let me know that she felt like dying as she felt so horrible for a 2 day period.... went on to last 4 days. Back at work dealing with covid patients. Wonderful!!!!!!
     
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  2. djfinn6230

    djfinn6230 DI Senior Member

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    I know at least 3 nurses in the USA who took the vaccine and they all felt fortunate to be able to get it early. None complained of side effects. Not sure if that was mandatory as an employment condition but if it were, nobody can force anyone to get a shot but I can understand if healthcare employers want their employees to be resistant to the disease for many reasons. I would probably make it a requirement if it were up to me. In fact I would be suspicious about the technical competence of any “anti-vax” nurse or doctor if they were concerned about anything other than allergic reactions which is a common and temporary side effect for many flu vaccines.

    My only reply to that is, better the higher likely hood of temporary side effects than the albeit lower likelyhood of being dead or causing deaths in patients. Risk vs benefit. Sounds like the right choice.


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  3. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    Most vaccines are tested for years for safety before they are made available to the public. Surely you wouldn't blame people for being weary and cautious of a vaccine that was made available only months after research was started.

    We don't even know the short term risks of these vaccines yet.

    And what if the long term risks include higher rates of cancer, heart disease or any other number of diseases that could cause suffering or many millions of premature deaths? Forcing hundreds of millions or even billions of people to get a vaccine for a disease that poses no real risk to them is absolutely insane IMO. Nobody should ever be forced or coerced to put a completely untested and rushed chemical compound (especially if it is coming from China) into their body under any circumstance and saying that their competence should be questioned for wanting the existing scientific method and government regulation and approval processes to be followed is completely hypocritical and self serving nonsense.
     
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  4. djfinn6230

    djfinn6230 DI Senior Member

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    The vaccines are tested in 3 phases with prescribed numbers of tests and people participating in the tests. In this respect, no shortcuts were taken. What was short-cut was queue time for FDA review and lead time to obtain approvals and other bureaucratic activities which have no value-add. I believe the medical community followed the necessary steps involve in normal vaccine approvals. True, test participants are often monitored for years perhaps for decades and thus is not part of the approval process. With all vaccines there is a risk but it is a calculated risk. On a personal level, some people may consider any risk unacceptable but if they do it should be based only on good data and not the Bill Gates conspiracy theories etc.. Many people feel there is a risk of autism due to mercury and other elements in the vaccine but these are known risks. One could be confident that the transparency of the review would prevent the addition of known carcinogens in the solution. The RNA material in Pfizer does not modify DNA; people are mixing up RNA and DNA which are two separate chemistries.

    If one decides to become this type of healthcare worker, the that person has already accepted in principle the procedures of vaccine development and distribution before being hired. If such a person had any concerns about new vaccines then such a person should not have decided to be employed in environments where such activities are not only possible but imminent, because eventually your refusal you will probably get you fired. Such a person may have better entered other venues of medical care such as research or medical specializations not involving vaccines. A doctor or nurse who us opposed to abortion can avoid a lot of problems by choosing to work as a neurologist instead of at planned parenthood. I do not know hundreds of nurses and other medical professionals but the ones I do know believe the risks of severe side effects (not like the ones described here) does not outweigh the benefits of taking the vaccine.

    And I totally agree that nobody should be forced by government mandate to undertake any medical procedure including vaccines at the point of a gun; you mention China and that along with North Korea and Cuba might be contemplating this but such human rights violations will not occur in the USA or the PI, imho.


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  5. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    I disagree. The approval and review process is there for a reason and, even with it's flaws, is value added.

    I don't trust in the pharmaceutical industry's honesty and integrity. They have proven time and time again that profits, not people's health, is the main driver...and there is a lot of money to be made with this vaccine. The governmental review and approval process was not perfect by any means but at least it was something to work as a buffer to their greed.

    I don't trust when CEOs promise their vaccines will be safe and effective and then don't release all the data. I don't trust when politicians say how safe and effective trials have been and then don't release all the data. They have a strong incentive to do what CEOs and politicians are so good at...lie and tell partial truths to cover their own @sses. They do not care about you, me or anyone else. They care about profit and power and they are very short sighted when it comes to these things. I will not trust a d@mn thing that comes out of their mouths. They need to shut up and show the data.
     
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  6. Senjenbing

    Senjenbing DI Forum Adept Veteran Marines Navy

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    I totally agree. The film Dark Waters says it all.
     
  7. SpringYellow

    SpringYellow DI Member

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    Likewise, what they are doing is the Great REset...
     
  8. djfinn6230

    djfinn6230 DI Senior Member

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    I just read an article about that in Time magazine. Reimagining capitalism. Nice pipe dream. Capitalism is not a man-made ideology like Communism or socialism, it is the natural way for humans timo behave and interact economically and it exists today that way even in the communist countries to some degree, even if it is illegal. People need to eat. For people to try to re-engineer capitalism is as hopeless as shouting at the wind to blow in another direction; people are going to make, buy and do the things they need to put food on the table. Idealists may embrace it but it is necessary to be practical to survive. The West used to recognize this but now some really rich and powerful people who want wish to have a great legacy I suppose, do not understand human nature are trying to make what is a natural economic system into an artificially designed social welfare system. It is not communism but like communism it isn’t going to work...at least that is my prediction. Perhaps in certain homogeneous societies like the Nordic countries a similar brand of capitalism could exist up to about 10 years ago but something that will be sustainable for the entire culturally diverse globe will not. Let them try to force a square peg into a round hole; they can do their thing but reimagined capitalism will ultimately fail. That’s just life and whatever we do, no man or group can make it perfect.
     
  9. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    There is not, and never has been, a true communist country. It has only been a political party name or stated as a country's end goal...that has never in history been achieved. Likely because it is a ridiculous social-economic idea that is impossible to achieve. On the opposite hand, pure capitalism has also never been achieved. Every country on earth is a "socialist" country. Do you pay taxes? Do you have roads? Police? Firefighters? Social security? Pensions? Subsidized healthcare? Student loan assistance? Research grants? Government regulations on private companies? Government aid of any type? Those are socialist programs. I would not like to live in a communist country anymore than I would like to live in a pure capitalist country.
     
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  10. Jens K

    Jens K DI Senior Member

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    I recently read an interesting article about how such an mRNA vaccine actually works: https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source-code-of-the-biontech-pfizer-vaccine/

    Quite fascinating stuff and a considerable technological advancement over how traditional vaccines are made. I’d take that over a Chinese made vaccine any time.

    Also it appears that all vaccines the EU is currently acquiring (mRNA or not) are way cheaper than what the Chinese ask for theirs (all less than EUR 20 per dose, some considerably so):

    https://www.hln.be/binnenland/zovee...rijzen-per-ongeluk-online~a3dceef4/180355293/
     
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