Finance & Legal Best Posts in Thread: Double Billed

Good news the money is back as promised.
Thanks for all the input from everyone.
I've learned a few things about banking with this episode.

 

I pay cash. Cash is king in the Philippines.

 

Well I did go to Robinson. Their customer service desk was pretty helpful. They photocopied my bank statement and receipt.
The supervisor said it should be resolved in 24 hours (or so) and the money will be back in my account.
They couldn't really explain how this happened. The just said it was a terminal error. I'll accept it as an error.
I asked them if this has ever happened before and they admitted "yes it happens but not very often", I believe there is some truth there.

Thinking back all the ATM screen displayed was "ERROR" and I would have to guess that the link dropped before receiving the transaction code from the bank.
Without a transaction code the cashier can't "pay the till" so I handed over my cash.
It never would have been caught but when I went to an ATM today my balance was of a couple thousand pesos.
Absolutely no idea how many times this has happened before.

What I have learned here is to keep my receipt and keep an eye on my bank balance when there is a failed transaction.

thanks all for the suggestions.

 

Dave, I would suggest Robinson's because the bank's position will probably be that if you put your PIN in, then you own the purchase. I think Robinson's (once showed they double dipped) will offer you a credit for the amount. If not.... steal something, the guards are useless lol.

 

That's why I said the business could blacklist your card feeling they were stiffed because when you dispute your bank will return the money but they also make sure the business pays it back hence the feeling by the business that they were stiffed (even though it was a double charge

That is more often at hotels or rental agencies that want to ensure you have enough to pay for a longer stay or incidental damages. They shouldn't be doing it but does that ever stop them?

That's how it works. But of course plenty of Philippine banks (probably all of them) are still 20-30 years behind the curve.

Now a few tips.

Credit card protection is a LOT better then ATM/Debit card protection which is fairly laughable (as far as US banks go). This has a lot to do with the laws then the bank being *nice* and the laws spell out for credit cards. So IF you need to use a card use a credit card.

Paypal is fairly safe IF the site as most actually direct you to paypal's login page rather then working it through their own site. Usually it redirects to paypals site and back or a paypal site popup. This ensures that the online business is NOT getting your password. Most reputable sites are very secure on this so while you could get screwed over a single purchase they don't have your info to do fake charges.

Robinson's transactions for credit card or atm/debit cards go through either Robinson's Bank or BDO and most all other business's go through BDO no matter if you have an account at any Philippine bank be it BPI, PNB, or Metrobank or if its a foreign account. That mean's yes the bank in the middle has your pin number and potentially the business depending on their setup has your pin number again. Hence why its better to use a credit card while their is no pin number the protections are far better. A US bank MUST side with the account owner in a credit card dispute until the business appeals and can prove otherwise (unlikely to happen) however the credit card issuer may review a card and cancel / suspend it if to many reported false claims by the owner. ATM/Debit cards are not protected that way and the issuer/bank has far more rights to simply say *tough sh*t*.

Hence why I try and say keep your foreign account as private as possible, transfer money to a local bank and use only atm's in well established places be it a bank or a mall. When you need to pull out the plastic always put in on the credit card.

But yes, CASH IS KING.

 

Last time I was checking in at a hotel in Manila (2 months ago) the desk clerk told me that swiping a debit card OR a credit card that autolinked to your savings account would instantly withdraw the money from the account but with a normal credit card it would just be a hold on the money. I assumed the desk clerk knew what she was talking about as this was the Fairmont in Makati and the staff are VERY well trained there.

 

What you have explained is helping me understand the protocol of ATM a little bit better. I can follow the idea of a merchant putting a reserve hold on your credit card/ATM. I think that is what most hotels do when the swipe your card at check in time. I never noticed any reduction on my available balance at the time.
There is probably some international standard for the communication protocol for ATM usage.
Here's a reader digest of what happened.
1) ATM transaction failed
2) paid in cash
3) went to ATM outside 5 minutes later and checked my balance it was correct. The machine was MetroBank and it was on a MetroBank account. I don't envision any third party delaying the information. I assume the money was still in my account.
4) the following day took cash from ATM balance is wrong.
Here my concern. With an ATM transaction I expect things should be real time (here and now). If I pull cash from an ATM it will always give a slip with my updated balance if it's a MetroBank machine.
It appears that ATM communications pass through Robinsons server where they are in possession of your PIN.

That is a very scary thought having someone in possession of your PIN and preforming bank transaction that are not real time. It looks like their server is doing transactions independent of the terminal in front of you.

Yup as someone said CASH IS KING

 

I'm guessing its resolved now.

However when something like this happens first thing is to double check your bank record if the money was actually removed from your account or if their was simply an authorization request which tends to set aside the requested amount which lasts usually for 48 hours before it reappears if the transaction for a payment request didn't go through. Swiping your card as atm/pin can do that even if the transaction fails yet the money ends up not being gone but unavailable per the timeframe your bank has set for authorization requests before they self cancel.

Assuming it wasn't just an authorization request then first place would be starting at Robinson's giving them the benefit of the doubt and seeing if they would fix it properly. If they fail then it would be calling your bank which if its a US bank they will certainly side with you over the business and refund your money immediately. However this could result in the business blocking your card feeling they were stiffed even if its their error and being the Philippines there really is no authority to fix bad business practice's like that.

 

If this doesn't work out well I'll let you know, CAPS LOCKS will be on.