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FDA recommends avoiding VALVE masks

Discussion in 'COVID-19' started by Edward K, Aug 6, 2020.

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  1. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    Information on this is readily available and extremely easy to find. Anyone claiming they can't find it is not looking. It is even clearly laid out and explained on the FDA website that was referenced here. If people would bother to read more than the title they may understand there is nuance to the topic and any questions they had were very clearly answered.

    https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices...n95-respirators-surgical-masks-and-face-masks

    Many viruses need a medium to hitch a ride. Stop the water droplets and you stop the virus. This is why surgical masks work even though a virus is small enough to slip through the gaps in the cloth.

    Surgical masks are mainly too protect others from contracting something YOU have, not to protect you from getting something from someone else.

    N95, the US standard (or KN95, the chinese standard) without vents protect you from contracting and spreading the virus.

    If the mask has vents it only protects you from contracting a virus, not from you spreading anything.
     
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  2. hiddenuser

    hiddenuser Guest Guest User

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    well i agree there is so much out there to read and for myself there are so many other sources i would spend time on before i would take the time to read recommendations from the philippine FDA. for example an article in the NYT of July 30, 2020 notes that the WHO only recently (july 9) "admitted partial and grudging acceptance" of the idea that covid can be spread through aerosols.

    droplets and aerosols are represented by a spectrum of sizes, with smaller aerosols found at 1 micron or less in size, as small as the covid virus. N95 masks by definition should stop 95 percent of particles and are effective down to 3 microns. such information is easy to find if you want to look for it.

    scientific american may 12 has an article about airborn transmission of virus. it cites the recent change by WHO to "reverse its guidance" and agree about airborne transmission being possible what s remarkable to me if you read is there are still significant disagreements among the experts on what this pandemic is and how we should deal with it.

    my purpose is posting here is to engage in serious discussion of what we individually and collectively know about covid and how to deal with it. i enjoy adding a bit of humor from time to time. i will plan to cooperate with the wearing of masks to the extent that is prudent to do so. i am convinced that the amount of non compliance, or partial compliance i witness in public settings in this city means there is nothing to keep covid from spreading through respiratory means here

    reading for me just emphasizes that there really is no agreement among many of the authorities on what to do and how to do it. reversals on aerosol transmission as just made by WHO is just one example. with regards to vaccines, i was reminded by a friend at lunch that you can have fast, cheap and good. any two of the three. but you cannot have all three at the same time.
     
  3. hiddenuser

    hiddenuser Guest Guest User

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    i guess i was thinking more along the lines of a status check. btw, may i ask. as a virologist i think you would be the one to ask about the meaning of N95 on masks. i read that means they will filter out "up to" 95 percent of particles from watermelons down to 3 microns. true or no?
     
  4. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    Nothing is going to be 100%. The goal is harm reduction. Masks achieve this goal.
    The advice is clear and pretty universal: wash your hands frequently, wear your masks when going in public/around others, practice social distancing when and where possible, only go out when necessary. These are universal recommendations for preventing the spread of diseases by any respectable medical professional. Everything else can be ignored right now as we just don't have enough information and we likely won't until this pandemic is over with.
     
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  5. Obliged Friend

    Obliged Friend DI Forum Adept Veteran Army

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    D9C3AE58-6D88-49C7-8F07-D1452BC3164D.jpeg D9C3AE58-6D88-49C7-8F07-D1452BC3164D.jpeg FDA website
     
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  6. hiddenuser

    hiddenuser Guest Guest User

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    so, i agree with everything you just said. but, if you find yourself in a large room in dumaguete with one hundred plus other people where there is no handwashing, no social distancing, no foot baths, no logs and no temps being taken, and masks are at either absent or compromised on 50 percent of the players, what then? when you walk through that door, you are not in the mayors office, you are in the real world.
     
  7. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    You still practice the measures to protect yourself as best possible. Personally, I have ordered a PN95 mask to protect myself. Since many don't seem to care about protecting others I find it better to look out for numero uno. I understand these masks are mainly not recommended because it would put them in short supply for hospitals but I just don't care...maybe these hospitals should get on Lazada or Alibaba and start buying in bulk. If I can easily find them it shouldn't be too hard for a corporation to buy all of them up in mass straight from the factory. But God forbid they do something that hurts their profits. p*ss on hospitals and their for profit business model.
     
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  8. hiddenuser

    hiddenuser Guest Guest User

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    hahahaha, well you just wrote a great lapida epitaph for 200k plus americans reportedly killed each year through their (the hospitals) mistakes. gotta love it

    i started out when bedpans, water pitchers and urinals were all stainless steel, washed and sterilized between patients. masks (probably N50) were washed in the laundry, some put into surgical packs and opened in surgery along with scalples and scissors and then recycled. now the reason they need so many is that they only wear them once, change between patients, breaks et cet and they become part of the environmental problem.
     
  9. Notmyrealname

    Notmyrealname DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer

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    No, I would not be the person to ask - you could find out more about masks by using Google than I know. The reason is that when I studied virology we never did anything about masks - even some dangerous viruses have emerged since I studied the subject (e.g. HIV, Ebola). I keep up to date on emerging diseases (I noted the reports from China in December 2019 of a 'strange pneumonia-like disease' but was not aware what a catastrophe it would turn out to be) and cures but bought my masks in 2010 only because I knew there was a high risk of another flu pandemic and the 2009/10 pandemic led me to seek masks for the next big one. I bought N95 as they were the best recommended ones at that time.

    The subject of masks has been one of great contention, within a small group such as this Forum, through whole countries and up to world-wide. But I still contend that something is better than nothing as long as it does not make the situation worse. I advised family members in the UK to use bandanna-type masks because of the lack of any alternative - they all went out for daily walks during the severe lockdown and all are fine.

    We could argue for years about masks (and type) and social distancing (and actual distance) but that seems to me a bit like letting Rome burn whilst we fiddle.

    One thing I will add, in case anyone does not understand this: The face visor is no substitute for a mask - the mask should be the major requirement and the visor an addition. Another posting here showed the vortex effect behind a 'wall' and I guess that will be the same behind a face visor also. I don't think anyone would expect a visor, which allows full air circulation into the body, to stop a wearer being infected. Also, I am not a fan of gloves for public use as they would be contaminated so easily (and then what do you do with them in between usage within a trip out?) - best to allow the skin barrier to do its job and wash/spray the hands when required.

    Btw, I just did a test on one of my N95s and yes, it DID keep out the watermelon. :smile:
     
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    Last edited: Aug 8, 2020
  10. Notmyrealname

    Notmyrealname DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer

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    I agree - in fact some here used to write about letting the virus do its job as it would just wipe out the pointless oldies (or words to that effect) - but I can't remember who.
     
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