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Food for thought with to large a Footprint...

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by simple mind, Nov 18, 2013.

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  1. Knowdafish

    Knowdafish DI Forum Luminary

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    A nice rant an an interesting opinion, but you will find that most people have a "moral compass" and agree that some things are "right" and some things are "wrong". Is it a "Judeo-Christian" concept? In and of itself it is not, it is just a fact of life that has a label, or a name to it. Most people come equipped with a moral compass, but a limited few do not.

    "But the church you gave that money to, they will spend less than 1% of it to help anyone."

    With some churches possibly, but to lump all of them together is not only inaccurate but unfair. To remotely prove this is true is impossible.

    "If I can afford to drive a Hummer that get 8 MPG, then I have the right to do that. And no one has the right or authority to tell me I can't."

    You have a very narrow world view. In some countries it may be your "right", but in most it is not. Even in the U.S. no one has the "right" to drive on public roads, it is a "privilege". Drink and drive or break any other major law and see where your "right" to drive gets you.

    "We are animals. Hunters and gatherers/ nestors and providers...Such is the nature of man....anything else that we try to be is against our basic nature."

    Any interesting humanistic view, but it is complete bull-puckey. It is an excuse to do whatever feels good or whatever feels "right" without any regard for anyone else or society. While man has things in common with animals he has a lot of traits that are not common with them. Refer back to "moral compass" which animals do not have.
     
  2. Larry_H

    Larry_H DI Member

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    Knowda,

    Pick a church...any church...look at their accounting...then tell me it isn't true. Look at the largest church in the world...what is their income and how much of it do they spend on the needy? The information is on the internet...go do the math...I've done the math. It is less than 1%. This church that most Filipinos call their spiritual home, how did they respond to the typhoon catastrophe? With less than $1,000,000. By the accounting of their financial department, that is less than they collect on one Sunday in the Philippines. This church that has been taking money from these people for decade after decade, contributed less than $1 for each person affected. The church my parents forced me to go to as a child, they have forty oil wells, 10,000 acres of property and they spent less than $100 a week to help the community. But yet, they remodeled the church buildings every five years, bought the pastor a very expensive home and cars and spent money for meetings and dinners for the members that all had plenty of food at home.

    Yes, a drivers license is a privilege....what vehicle I choose to buy is my choice. There isn't a country in the world that outlaws any vehicle if it conforms to safety standards of that country. Even in China, where I am now, I can drive anything I want as long as I'm willing to pay the license fees.

    Man did not have any moral compass thousands of years ago. It was kill, eat, protect, and procreate...THOSE are basic animal traits. The other traits that you mention are programmed and learned.

    I don't need any excuse to live my life as I please, with or without regard for anyone. My regard for others extends to family, whether blood or chosen; children who don't get choices, and those that want a better life and are willing to put forth the effort to build it.

    In my adult life, I have given more than most to others, but only others that don't just want a handout. I've worked with Habitat for Humanity, The Autism Foundation, and Salvation Army. I won't just give to or care about those that expect something for nothing.

    I have also spent more on toys than most people and I have no guilt about who starved while I spent millions of dollars drag racing or who didn't have a home to live in while I played with my airplane or who had no shoes to wear while I lived in a 6,000 sq/ft home.

    As far as "moral compass" goes, take a human baby, do not subject them to society, learning, communications or anything else that might influence them...let them grow up and then let them loose...they will scrounge, kill, eat, protect, and procreate...without regard for anyone or anything...so "moral compass"...is learned...It is NOT part of the basic instinct of humans.

    This is a good conversation! :smile:
     
  3. OP
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    simple mind

    simple mind DI Forum Patron

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    I usually don't go to great length to explain simple basics to educated humans but in your case I will make an exception, you state that you don't care about your “Footprint” and that according to your believe the World is doomed anyway no mater what actions we do or do not take.
    You surely now about how one converts one form of energy (in this case fossil-fuel, wood) into another (in this case into heat and horsepower), if one burns something one creates heat that heats up the air or the water around the source where one burns the energy (we also build our “energy-converters” very inefficiently and produce more heat than horsepower), so, if we all go and burn non-stop energy all the time, one can not deny it that the air and the waters will get hotter as we progress with this process, also there are other forms of heat production, like friction, by heating with electricity or by compression (like in AC systems) or decay in the case of nuclear fuel.
    Additionally, in order to burn something one needs also oxygen, so one burns oxygen as well together with the fossil-fuel or wood, at the same time are we cutting down our forests and fail to replace them.
    Also do we cover evermore land with plastics, glass and concrete that radiates heat back, can one in his right mind really fail to see this facts and believe that our doing all this has no impact on the environment...
    Don't you think it very selfish to drive a 8 miles per gallon car when one has so many alternatives, it is the air you and your children breath that you burn and pollute, no remorse at all, really?

    And I don't need to defend my position about the way I live my life, I have peace of mind with what I do...
     
  4. Larry_H

    Larry_H DI Member

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    No...no remorse at all....really!

    I am thrilled that you have peace of mind...so do I. Yours and mine come from different places...Yours comes from thinking you are making a better world and mine comes from not giving a crap one way or the other...so we are both happy!

    Ha Ha...as far as your lesson on how to convert energy, we can have a lengthy discussion on this at any time of your choosing after I arrive there. I doubt you can teach me anything I don't already know. My opinions on global warming come from years and years of study and research in academia on the subject, not from the spoutings of the gloom and doom sheep of the Al Gore flock. The very idea that anything as puny as man could alter dramatically the cycles of the earth over time is just sheer arrogance. Trust me, not you, I, or anyone else is that significant. The human population of this planet is merely a moment in time of the past, present, and future of this rock. The final generation or two of the human race may suffer somewhat, but that is thousands of years from now and nothing you do is going to alter that in any measurable way.

    But, the main point that you and some others seem to be missing here is that I don't give a crap what resources are wasted, what the quality of the air or water is or at what level the seas rise and when the sun comes up. Nothing drastic is going to change over the next 20 years and after that I'll be dead so it won't matter to me.

    However, in this time I have left, I do my part to not trash up the place (planet), am willing to share it with all of you for now as long as you also clean up after yourself.

    The life/health of planet earth isn't my problem. The continuity of the human race is not my problem.
     
  5. john boy

    john boy DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster

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    Larry quit while your ahead.
    I'm sure with your attitude a big welcome awaits your arrival to the Philippines.
    Opinions are one thing, Attitude is another.

    "I used to complain I had no shoes till I met a man who had no feet"
    "Live simple so that others may simply live"
     
  6. Knowdafish

    Knowdafish DI Forum Luminary

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    1) OK. I'll pick a very large local one, Calvary Chapel Dumaguete who regularly gives an accounting of what the members give and where it goes. I used to have a copy of a quarterly (monthly?) statement of theirs, but after two moves I can't find it. They give much more than 1%. I've done the math, and I have been closely involved with more than one church. I also will not give any money to a church that has no accountability to its members. You are generalizing. That is my point. ALL churches do not keep 99% or more of what they are given. The same goes with most charities.

    2) The Catholic church. What you say may be accurate about them, but my point was, and still is, that you can not lump all churches under the same assumption and expect it to be true let alone accurate.

    3) I'm sorry to hear that. I am sure that this has greatly influenced your opinion, but again, all churches are not the same.

    4) My point was that one can not drive whatever they want. There are conditions attached.

    5) While that is a popular opinion, you are incorrect. While human beings all over the world have different sets of values, or a moral compass, they still have built in morals that come standard. Are their morals perfect? No, but they still have them from birth. One just needs to watch a Nat. Geo special on remote tribes in Africa, S. America, or Borneo to understand that what you are saying is incorrect.

    6) Good for you.

    7) Also good for you. I hope you don't expect doing good to buy you anything though, because it won't.

    8) Good for you. To each their own. All will be judged eventually.

    9) You are incorrect. Studies like that are flawed. What would you expect if one was raised in a vacuum and starved psychologically?

    10) True!
     
  7. DavyL200

    DavyL200 DI Forum Luminary ★ Global Mod ★ ★ Moderator ★ Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer

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    An interesting thread for once!
    As far as I'm concerned all religion is a way of controlling the people and extracting money!
    We only have one earth,look after it or lose it!
     
  8. Larry_H

    Larry_H DI Member

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    DavyL200

    Point #1...Yes! It is!
    Point #2...Couldn't agree more!
    Point #3...Whether it is looked after or not, we're gonna lose it! It is the natural cycle of the planet.

    To all the rest of you...my "attitude" is only there because some of you are trying to tell other people how they should live and what they should believe. Regardless of your perspective and/or opinion/beliefs, no one has any right or authority to tell another person how they should live.

    As far as my big welcome in the Phils, I've been coming there for decades, and not once has any Filipino ever tried to tell me how I should live or what I should care about. The only people that think they should do that is westerners. EVERY Filipino I have met has the same attitude I do...."Live and let live. Mind your OWN business. Enjoy life on your own terms." So, my welcome there will be the same as it has always been...friendly, warm and generally familial.

    I quite sure I will meet many of you at some point after I arrive. We can and should get along very well as long as we both follow one simple rule....No one should ever try to tell another person how they should live their life. Friends accept friends for who they are, what they are, and how they are....good, bad, or socially rude, crude and unacceptable...Cheers! :dnr: And, if after we meet, either of us cannot accept the other in that spirit, then I'm sure that neither one of us will lose any sleep over it.:D
     
  9. Knowdafish

    Knowdafish DI Forum Luminary

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    1) Some people do try to influence what others believe and in some instances rightly so. It is interesting that you bring this up. I assume you went through numerous years of schooling. Did you also rebel against what you were taught? God has every right as creator to expect how people should live. Most would agree.

    2) You might no like it, but governments and authorities all over the world tell people how to live on a daily basis with written and unwritten laws by the thousands. They also have that right. Without laws the world and modern society would be in a state of complete chaos all of the time. God's laws are no different. They are there for a similar reason.

    To find out if you need God, you must ask yourself some very important questions.
     
  10. Knowdafish

    Knowdafish DI Forum Luminary

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    You are entitled to your opinion, just like anyone else is, but where most people get mixed up is the difference between God and religion.

    Most "religions" suck, to put it bluntly, but God sure doesn't!

    He is also against "religion" for the most part believe it or not. Sadly man has a way of screwing up good things over time.

    Religion is mans attempt to describe and appease God, and for the most part it is a failed and bad attempt. I completely understand why most are against organized religion, but that doesn't mean that they should take it out on God!

    Jesus strongly denounces those who falsely claim to worship the true God:

    “Many will say to me: ‘Lord, did we not prophesy, expel demons, & perform many powerful works in your name?’ Yet I will confess to them: I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness. --Matthew 7:21-23

    "You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you: ‘This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshiping... because *they teach commands of men as doctrines.’” --Matthew 15:7,8

    "“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees [the false religious leaders of his day, which correspond to those of today], hypocrites! because you resemble whitewashed graves, which outwardly indeed appear beautiful but inside are full of dead men’s bones and of every sort of uncleanness. In that way you also, outwardly indeed, appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness." --Matthew 23:27,28
     
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