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For the anti vaxers and vaxers

Discussion in 'COVID-19' started by cabb, May 21, 2021.

  1. cabb

    cabb DI Forum Patron ✤Forum Sponsor✤

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    My wife got a text from her sister about a Dr Bossche, a noted virologist, who says the Covid vaccine could devastate the human race. Most of her family keeps telling her she shouldn't get vaccinated. I'm curious if this is how many of the Filipino's feel.

    I've included Dr. Bossche's perspective and a perspective of his perspective.



    https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/c...nce/doomsday-prophecy-dr-geert-vanden-bossche
     
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  2. Notmyrealname

    Notmyrealname DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer

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    Yes, many Filipinos are very wary of being vaccinated because of the Dengue vaccine issue.

    I read the articles - the one by Dr Bossche is quite heavy going (and I read it at midnight) - and I can see what he is getting at. However, his alternative solution is stated by the reviewers as having no evidence to back it up.

    Although I am a virologist I am out of the game now and so take an interest in the current pandemic but don't read many articles - it will be like the 'salt is good/salt is bad/salt is good/salt is bad' charades we have all been through (and we can substitute many other products for 'salt' in that).

    If the virus gets near the point of wiping out the human race (and how much better our planet would be!) it will be self-limiting. The chances of total devastation from THIS virus is very low - unless it combines with another virus possessing certain qualities!

    A piece of evidence we have is that highly vaccinated countries (e.g. UK) appear to be having some resurgence but at a much lower rate than before vaccination. So having a highly-vaccinated population but still remaining cautious seems the best way forward. Controversial I know, BUT... it means vaccinating the World.

    I am waiting before being vaccinated to see if any side-effects arise in the longer term!
     
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  3. Toto

    Toto DI Senior Member

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    Geert uses old language and concepts in my view. In his view vaccines cause the creation of a supervirus that escapes all immunity and devastates humanity. The vaccines cause "pressure" forcing evolution. The virus evolves. Simple evolution: A beast eats green food, one evolves that eats both green and yellow food. Green food becomes scarce and dies off. The beast that can eat yellow food becomes dominant.
    So the virus evolves. Under his view, we bread a super small pox and are dead already. Variants are going to evolve and to the extent they escape immunity, we'll be dealing with that. That's it.
    There was one cases where an immunodeficient man was hospitalized several times over a period and 28 different variants evolved inside him. This is occurring all the time. There are a ton of variants never sequenced that have died off, or never sequenced.
    I'm reminded of Rinderpest in livestock. According to him, we should have created a super Rinderpest that devastated the entire world and all livestock are now protected species. Big Macs are soybean patties. Instead, Rinderpest is no more - livestock have no say about being vaccinated.
    I don't discount at all that the virus will evolve. The Indian variant is now making kids sicker. Some variants look deadlier. Transmissibility? Just look at the rise in cases here.
    The virus evolves in mistakes made in the little knitting machine that makes it. The more the virus replicates, the more you can have a successful variant made. So it behooves us to limit the number of times it can replicate - which vaccines help do.
     
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  4. Toto

    Toto DI Senior Member

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    Yes, Duts political usage of Dengvaxia increased vaccine hesitancy - not helpful at all.
     
  5. anti_crazy

    anti_crazy DI Forum Adept

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    This ^^^

    Also, keeping one eye on VAERS (but not sure how accurate the reporting system is; overstated or understated).
     
  6. john boy

    john boy DI Forum Luminary

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    Every year people succumb to the Flu and every year a high number of people recieve their flu injections.
    This of course does not always prevent one getting flu, but we are led to believe that it reduces the effects and risks that flu can cause.
    There are I'm told, various strains of flu so does that mean there's no point in having the flu jab?
    Point being that Covid 19 will be around for a long time, variants will appear as of now and we will play catch up, just like with flu.
    Having had my two injections now, I can't see that will stop me at some point falling foul to Covid but a least I would like to think it will be less severe for having had my injections......there are certainly a lot more things happening in the world more fatal to the future of the human race.
    Just my thoughts on the matter, Stay safe prevention is better than cure.
     
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  7. Show Pony

    Show Pony DI Forum Patron Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer

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    Today I received my first shot in Bacong. I'll be looking forward to my next shot in about a month.
    Sinovac was on the menu. The clinical trials were not stellar but in Indonesia they found it 97% in preventing serious reaction requiring hospitalization. The study was done on front line workers.
     
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  8. Toto

    Toto DI Senior Member

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    In the US there are 4 types:
    1. Watchers
    2. Time/cost money - they want the vaccine
    3. System distrusters - they don't believe the system is rigged to benefit them.
    4. Skeptics - full anti-vax and Qanon types, it's a hoax!

    I think the Philippines will vary, but Dengvaxia, and infection by #4 seem to be present too.
     
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  9. Notmyrealname

    Notmyrealname DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer

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    Simple evolution: A vaccine produces antibodies against the known variants. The antibodies neutralise the variants the vaccine was designed for. The variants not neutralised are now even more likely to reproduce (less competition for host cells). Eventually new variants arise in vaccinated people. It's possible.
     
  10. Notmyrealname

    Notmyrealname DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer

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    I think worldwide these are some of the types:

    1. Don't believe Covid19 is real. Will never have the vaccine.
    2. Have never trusted any vaccine. Will probably not have the vaccine.
    3. Are cautious about new vaccines. May eventually have the vaccine.
    4. Are okay about vaccines, new or old, but can't be bothered. May or may not have the vaccine.
    5. Are keen to have the vaccine.
    6. Are forced to have the vaccine.

    So we have the definites, the nevers, the maybes. Personal choice. I am a 'maybe'.
     
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