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Ph not opening its border to international tourism until the second half of 2021

Discussion in 'News and Weather' started by DavyL200, Sep 10, 2020.

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  1. jimf

    jimf DI Member Showcase Reviewer

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    Quarantine those at risk.
    Making the cure worse than the disease as we certainly have done, has done more harm than good.
     
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  2. Philpots

    Philpots DI Senior Member

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    Everyone is at risk, Just that some more so than others.
     
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  3. jimf

    jimf DI Member Showcase Reviewer

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    Everyone is at risk for the common cold too. For some, it is riskier than for others.
     
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  4. Philpots

    Philpots DI Senior Member

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    You surely are not likening this to the common cold because of you are may your god help you.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
  5. Notmyrealname

    Notmyrealname DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer

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    Most people are at risk for smallpox if ever it gets out of a lab (as may possibly have been the case with SARS-CoV2) - the only chance we would have to be sure of not being infected is isolation and/or extensive use of PPE until the majority of people can be vaccinated (some of us already are - mostly the OLDER generation, I think). Sounds familiar?

    (Yes, I know smallpox is much more lethal than Covid19 but Covid19 is more lethal than the common cold (for most people)).
     
  6. eskirvin

    eskirvin DI Member Blood Donor Veteran Navy

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    He's just advocating for what makes sense; isolating those most vulnerable.

    Isolating people, removing their ability to take care of their families, so that they won't lose their sense of smell for two weeks, is a cure worse than the disease. I know, we'll have another cycle of empathy bashing for this statement, I just need @jimf to know he's not alone in being rational.
     
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  7. Philpots

    Philpots DI Senior Member

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    There is a lot more to Covid than just losing your sense of smell mate. Why do you do this? Do you think its b*****y clever? Not too many have died in Dumaguete but check the figures out for Luzon. Sense of smell! How ............. Ah waste of time.
     
  8. Notmyrealname

    Notmyrealname DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer

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    "Rational" - interesting. How do you define, in this case, which viewpoint is rational? Surely it is a perspective issue - there must be many 'irrational' behaviours that are viewed by others (maybe whole cultures) as rational and vice-versa.

    And I am very sure you know it is not merely the "sense of smell" that is a symptom/outcome of this virus.
     
  9. eskirvin

    eskirvin DI Member Blood Donor Veteran Navy

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    I derive the "sense of smell" comment from people I know and trust communicating their experiences. Since we're related, it is most likely what I'd experience as well. I think there's a very high chance that many of the people said to have died from COVID have actually done so, and that's a terrible thing indeed. Death by any means is terrible to those that die, their friends, and their loved ones.

    The reason I come out and say the things, is because you come out and say your things. Every time I've seen views contrary to yours expressed, you come out and tell them your views. @jimf is just the latest. Isn't that why we're a community?
     
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  10. djfinn6230

    djfinn6230 DI Senior Member

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    I can understand how people became irrational. Just look at the massive fear porn we were subjected on regular media and social media including Facebook. The videos on TV and youtube showing dead bodies in Italy falling off the trucks onto the street. In the US in Staten Island, New York with the ambulance sirens as they passed by every 2 or 3 minutes and people huddling inside their homes, TV doctors claiming that millions will soon die, videos of Wuhan residents being dragged out of apartments and crammed into into trucks bring driven to quarantine camps and videos of people in Wuhan simply dropping dead on the street.

    Now it has been a while and we recognize that although the disease is horrible, much worse than flu strains we are familiar with, the death rate is 1.5% and not of the whole population but only of those testing positive. It has been going down according to the IATF graphs. I the early days I heard figures of total deaths approaching 10% of entire country populations if we didn’t lockdown. Our data on countries that did not lock down is sparse but it seems to show that lockdowns have some life saving benefit but mass casualties do not occur when they are lifted.

    But when it comes to matters of life and death it is psychologically difficult to roll back and take a less emotional and more rational perspective. You have been scared out your wits. The fright does not leave the mind so quickly when those shocking images and words have sunk in so deeply.

    It seems to stay with people for a long time, reading the majority of comments to covid news on FB. Those who want to relax lockdowns are akin to psychopaths who do not care if people die. So many are probably afraid to comment. Peer approval is much more important here than in the west.

    Past “quarantine” actions always meant “quarantining” individuals known or suspected to have been in contact with sick people and then “isolating” the sick people themselves. However, China started a new procedure we could call the “Wuhan” process; what they did, and the rest of the world copied, was to quarantine the entire population, not just the sick or potentially sick as before.

    This was the first time in history that happened in a large scale, at least as far as I can see. The 100% quarantines started in Wuhan China and we thought they likely knew the best way to handle it, after all, they were the experts, so everybody followed and they quarantined entire cities and regions just as Wuhan and surrounding provinces did.

    Initially this may have been justified because of the high presumed contagiousness. It is truly quite high with an R of 1.3 or more. But at the beginning, scientists were saying it was 6, definitely an added reason to keep everybody inside. To my knowledge, nobody is re-evaluating the need for 100% mass quarantine now that R is known to be much lower.

    R = 1.3 is highly contagious; it means that every sick person infects 1.3 more people, so, the disease rampages through the cities if no restrictions are made (like quarantine in its “normal” definition).

    Remember the 14 days to “flatten the curve”, to stem the increase in RATE of infections? That occurred here months ago. And for those who think “death rate” is more important, that rate has been in the negative direction even with the statistical increase in new cases (but not increase in rate of infection aka flattening the curve).

    “Flattening the curve” is a passé term nowadays for those who remember it. But at the beginning it was the most urgent effort to be undertaken by all nations on the planet. There is not much advertising revenue when reporting news that said we made significant progress on the disease, at least not then.

    I tend to be in eskirvin’s corner on this. We really need to do a deep dive and readjust our containment measures if more recent data supports it (loosening restrictions).

    I did not say we should stop trying to contain the virus. Or to not selectively protect the most endangered. But we need to give it another look and we may find many relaxations that would make perfect sense.


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    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
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