Best Posts in Thread: Safety in Local Bars

I don't think we should mention specific places here. The purpose of this thread should be general information. It's easier for us to say something which may be false than it is for bar owners to clean up the mess of spiraling misinformation. I have been part of this myself, so I have learned my lesson after having heart to heart talks.

That said, I know which location that Canadianized is referring to.

Here is what I have learned about bars and some specifics of Dumaguete.

Know the location

There are multiple locations here which have a reputation for fights. Some of these locations have an inadequate security staff to deal with problems. To enter one of these locations is a risk which should be avoided. If you must enter these places, make sure to observe security. Does the staff check people at the door? Is there sufficient security that you believe they could handle an out of control situation? Is the staff professional? Are the guards actively looking for problems rather than sleeping at a table? Is the place overcrowded?

Note: In some cases I will tip the guards. When you get to know them and help them out, they will often look out for you as well. I don't know that means they will risk themselves to pull you out of a pileup, but every bit helps.

Watch the street crowds

I feel the street crowds can be as dangerous or more dangerous than the venue. Outside, you may be on your own. You might be able to get security to help you out right in front of a bar, but further down the street you are on your own. When people are walking down the street to get to their ride, it's at the end of what may have been a long night of drinking and they may be highly intoxicated.

A lot of fights end up on the streets. People who get thrown out of the bar end up on the street. Someone who runs out of a bar to escape a beating just brings the fight to the street. Security guards will focus on order inside the bar rather than outside.

You don't even have to be drinking to get into a problem on the street. Avoid walking past these places late at night and especially when you see a crowd.

Know the cultures

Cultures and alcohol don't mix well. In the expat bars, we know our fellow cultures quite well. Once you get into the "local" bars then you get to be outside your element. Not only might you find Filipino's, but you may also find Iranians, Nigerians, Koreans and a long list of other cultures. The more unknowns you run into, the more you risk problems to yourself. Different cultures also deal with alcohol differently (it may be more of a social norm to drink yourself stupid in some countries?)

Lately there seems to be a large influx of natives from Papua New Guinea. I know some of these guys and they are good guys. But I have also seen some racial tensions and this has sparked off some hairy situations in places where I have seen a large group of them.

Young people also create a different cultural atmosphere. Just as I generally don't want to be drinking with a group of people half my age (and I'm not very old) I certainly wouldn't want to be in a club full of them. Young people have enough of a problem dealing with emotions without alcohol. Adding alcohol is a recipe for problems.

Know the alcohol flow

High levels of intoxication is bad in general. A bar may or may not be right to cut people off. But we have to watch out for ourselves. A good sign that you may be in the wrong place is that people are puking or there is puke all over the CR. As disgusting and unbelievable as this sounds to people who don't go to these places, I see this regularly at a lot of bars.

When you arrive to the bar, survey the place to see how people are acting. If you see a lot of highly intoxicated people, then leave. Stick to the places where people are happy, sipping their drinks and have their wits about then.

Early risers beware

Being out late at night isn't a problem for you? You go to bed early and early to rise? You could still run into problems. Some of these clubs are open nearly until dawn. I regularly see people I know coming home drunk as **** from clubs when I'm on my way to get breakfast. I regularly have to dodge drunk drivers coming out of karaoke parking areas. I still have to watch out for the above mentioned crowds.

Take care of your own

If I know I'm going to have a rough night, I try to stick to expat bars. At least there the people know me. But of course the best prevention is simply not to get too drunk. And watch the driving, get a pedi cab.

That's just a stream of thought that I had brewing in my head. Pipe in with your own stories and thoughts.

 

Having lived in Dumaguete 10 years ago for over two years, I can attest Dumaguete has always,(since at least 2006) been a potentially dangerous place. young drug influenced gangs roaming the streets at night, Bloods and Crips, kinda a joke compared to the real ones though. The fraternities are far more dangerous Akro etc. Then you have the drug related ongoing criminal activity which usually does not affect foreigners much, unless you get caught in the crossfire. On top of that there is a very active Muslim mafia here. They run and control many criminal activities and are tied in to the local police, NBI, and the PNP. They have connections in the south and have been known to import "operatives" to Dumagete to pull of a hit or a "job". Then the police, NBI, and ex military guys are running all kinds of games, and criminal activity. This is the largely invisible bad stuff to most foreigners , especially ones who live in Valencia in a safe compound commute to McDonalds for breakfast them scoot home again, with perhaps a weekly foray to the Bvd. for dinner.
just know your surroundings, travel at reasonable times of the day, change your daily/weekly route to the bank, and remember you are the foreigner here, always will be, and the guest of the Philippine people.

 

I don't think Dumaguete is getting more dangerous. This is anecdotal evidence but I can count on one hand the number of incidents where friends have had problems. And in each of these cases, the situation was easily avoidable. Sometimes people just like to look for problems. Or they stick around to watch a scene play out and end up getting caught in the crossfire.

Same here, but I generally know how to deal with expats a bit better. If nothing else, I know what they are saying when the background chatter gets going.

But this brings up another point.

Know who you're hanging out with

The only times I have really been nervous here is when I'm with someone who violates the above guidelines.

If you know that someone you're with has a problem handling his / her alcohol and / or is generally an *sshole, stick to the places where people know this person. That way you avoid problems by association.

I have also had problems hanging out with a local who wouldn't back down from anything. I calm the situation, the person I was with stoked the fires again. I ended up just walking away and the my friend lost the nerve to continue without me being there.

Avoid going to potential hot spots with people you don't know well. Just met someone new to town on the BLVD? Sorry, I already had plans. Wait for that person to prove him / herself as not an idiot first.

 

I understand your situation here and totally agree that this neither the time or place to air all of this out. Again I would refrain from saying things like "They are things that will happen to anyone that goes into one of these small local clubs." I would tone it down to say there are things that CAN happen to PEOPLE that go into one of these small local clubs. Each scenario has its own merit.

I am sure you will agree that you open yourself for all kinds of trouble if you are not in control of your actions when out drinking. Whether this was the case in this instance is not important. In my opinion it is a non issue. What is important is that this man lost his life at the hands of a bunch of cowards who clearly showed their disdain for foreigners! Nobody has the right take another man's life. End of story!

 

I would like to say that if this man was drunk and not in control he should have been removed from the premises. Maybe the guard should have stopped him from entering the premises in the first place. But one thing I believe is that he did not deserve to die because he may have spilled someone's drinks or step on some toes. There is no excuse for this kind of vicious and callous behavior.

I don't know what caused this barbaric behavior, but I do know that these murderers should be punished for killing this man. You can't explain away murder!

 

This thread brings to mind the scene at the alien cantina in the original Starwars movie. It seems you can go anywhere in 'the universe' and find a bar where the people who think they are bad asses like to hang out. Customers seem to be drawn to the lure of 'being bad' or hanging out with the 'cool' bad asses.

If you are young enough to still be interested in that scene then you pays your money and you takes your chances. For me, I see the kinds of crowds that are mentioned here and if I must step on toes to get to the bar I say "excuse me" and leave. There are other places to drink, Why drink with the lemmings?

This does NOT mean I would condone someone being mugged, mauled or killed in such a bar. It means life is about how much risk you are willing to take and its risky hanging out in bars where:

 

It only takes a few seconds, a knife pulled etc.. or a ticked off local texting his 10 cousins to teach a foreigner some respect

The Philippines can be a dangerous place but then so can downtown Santa Monica, or walking the backstreets of Venice Beach at 2am or at a disco in Paris. Here in Australia we have a very large "ice" [ shabu ] problem - only last week a man was beaten to death at a train station by assailants Welcome to the 21st c

Having said this,. I have never experienced any trouble or even perceived danger in my time in the Philippines and agree with Wrye that certain cultural and social conditions need to be observed. Which is politess and respect no matter what. For example I hold back from vocally abusing idiotic Pinoy drivers, which is normal behaviour in Australia for someone parking in the middle of the road causing a traffic jam.

Any foreigner thinking he is John Wayne in a bar fight maybe signing a death warrant. The Pinoys have a saying which roughly translates to " ..you win now. But i will later ".

Edited by a moderator to remove personal conversations in regard to an ongoing inquiry as per Admins request. Please stay on Topic without reference to a Specific Incident. Thank You.

 

This thread is for general information and scenarios. Hopefully others can use this information to keep safe. We aren't commenting on a case in which we have no facts.