Best Posts in Thread: Spanish

so, great subject! read all the posts and learn as always

my two cents. before the spanish the "philippines" was just 7000 islands with many languages and individual little cultures, probably one or more per island. (as it sort of still is today) settled by mostly malay area peoples. when the spanish arrived the muslim religeon was practiced in many places including manila and most population centers. the spanish drove them out. established catholicism which appealed to most filipinos whereas spanish language perhaps did not perhaps because no one language prevailed in the country.

i say that because the tribal culture still exists and many on negros can speak more english than their "national language" filipino (a supercharged version of tagalog) and/or tagalog proper. (yes, english is the second official language)

the spanish created the concept of a filipino nation and named it the Philippines. manila was the center and still is largely due to the economic power (70 percent of the nation) and site of government including the military and national police. the Philippines may claim and celebrate independence stemming from events of late 1800's but was still a spanish colony when the americans "won" the philippines in the spanish american war. the US granted independance rather quickly since it really never wanted and didn't really know what to do with the phils. that was to take place in the thirties but was delayed to 46 because of ww2.

the efforts to seek independence from the spanish spilled over with some turmoil against the americans so the relationship was somewhat awkward.

my opinion is that still today this is a tribal conglomeration more than a country with any real national history. it has existed under "home rule" less than 80 years (only three generations) which so far which makes it a newcomer on the world stage in terms of formal self governed countries.

i tend to see the functioning of the philippines much as i do the american indians which also have a full measure of internal disputes between tribes and even the bands within tribes.

which leads us where? i guess that it is hard to generalize about the philippine culture and you may have to adjust your thinking every time you get off the ferry? where is it headed compared to other asian nations? i can't get wrapped around that one

 

In Zamboanga city, aka, Ciudad Latina de Asia, some people still do speak Spanish.

 

wow, love this topic. i read that there are around 200k words commonly used in the english language with each person relying on 20 k plus, but the language itself has an estimated million words or so available. and as you so crappily pointed out, its easy to add new words!!

i cannot imagine how the chinese function where every definable thing or thought requires a separate symbol or group of characters to express in writing.

as you note english is the default language i think. in my early life you had to know some german and french if you wanted to read research work. now you don't.

its said to speak to a mans head talk to him in english, to speak to his heart speak in his native tongue. sorry, can't get there in bisaya. my fallback is to be a good tipper and hope that makes up for my laziness and ignorance.

one of the things i like so much about dumaguete forum is that with the cosmopolitan nature of the members i am constantly being sent back to the dictionary to understand some of what is said. not sure it makes me any more intelligent but certainly makes me more aware.

eschew obfuscation!!

 

Spanish used to be a subject taught in high schools and colleges in the Philippines but was abolished decades ago because of its uselessness. It was a difficult subject and there were not that many teachers who could teach it well. However, there are still many half-bred Filipinos who can speak the language fluently.

Indeed, we were under Spanish rule for almost 400 years so that most of our cultural influences came from them----Christianity, gambling, food preferences, how to use spoon and fork, part of our language, physical appearance, etc.

A great bulk of our language are of hispanic origin like chinelas, tinedor, kutsara, uno, dos, tres, etc.

Then came the Americans in 1898 along with another breed of culture . From them we learned the value of education, we learned English for the first time, that there is such a thing as time,jeans, and burgers.

None of you mentioned China. The whole while time during Spanish occupation, Chinese traders would come by to barter goods---they brought silk and porcelain and we gave them spices. The Chinese actually had been doing "business" with Filipinos (barter system) long before Spanish occupation. They, however, never thought this country was habitable---what with all the trees and the monkeys clinging on them. It was only the Spanish conquestadors who decided to settle and conquer the islands.

 

You must read this little gem by Mark Twain then:


To give you some flavour and wet your appetite (it's hilarious):

“An average sentence, in a German newspaper, is a sublime and impressive curiosity; it occupies a quarter of a column; it contains all the ten parts of speech — not in regular order, but mixed; it is built mainly of compound words constructed by the writer on the spot, and not to be found in any dictionary — six or seven words compacted into one, without joint or seam — that is, without hyphens; it treats of fourteen or fifteen different subjects, each inclosed in a parenthesis of its own, with here and there extra parentheses which reinclose three or four of the minor parentheses, making pens within pens: finally, all the parentheses and reparentheses are massed together between a couple of king-parentheses, one of which is placed in the first line of the majestic sentence and the other in the middle of the last line of it — after which comes the VERB, and you find out for the first time what the man has been talking about; and after the verb — merely by way of ornament, as far as I can make out — the writer shovels in “haben sind gewesen gehabt haben geworden sein,” or words to that effect, and the monument is finished.”

and

“You observe how far that verb is from the reader’s base of operations; well, in a German newspaper they put their verb away over on the next page; and I have heard that sometimes after stringing along the exciting preliminaries and parentheses for a column or two, they get in a hurry and have to go to press without getting to the verb at all.”

 

Not having to phrase ones sentences in gender would account for quicker comprehension of the English language sentence structure and having Latin roots found in so many European languages gives it a base millions can identify with. Your right about making up or even mistaken words allowing others to easily understand what you mean. Asawa ko will still say things like throw when she means drop but I get the idea.

 

ah, think, "wow, thats sharp" or "you wanna take this outside" or "i'll match you drink for drink"

i agree learning for it own sake is a good thing! (usually)

 

I will not object..........!!

 

Interesting topic. I'm thinking that the present situation in the Philippines is pretty much the result of several factors at work.
1. Climate / location. Spanish settlers had a choice of options to emigrate /settle into "greener pastures" much nearer to home and with a more favourable climate (South America). For much the same reasons, 17th century Dutch "expats" flocked to South Africa (and multiplied there, hence "Afrikaans" being widely spoken there, which is quite similar to Dutch language) and to North America (where they were soon overwhelmed by English speakers after the second Dutch-English war saw Nieuw Amsterdam change hands and get renamed to New York), rather than to the Dutch East Indies (present day Indonesia).
2. Religious Culture. While the Dutch already embraced "freedom of religion" in the 17th century, and thus didn't send many priests/pastors/evangelists to Indonesia (which shows today because Muslims didn't share such values and converted the country to the largest Muslim country currently), the Spanish under Filip II were still fervently catholic "spreaders of faith" and thus sent scores of priests everywhere they colonised and forcefully converted all natives. And looking at their behaviour in the Netherlands during our 80 year liberation war, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they killed/tortured many "witches" and "pagans/heretics" in the Philippines in the process.
3. The Spanish-American war at the end of the 19th century. Resulting in independence for the Philippines after half a century or so, and also in the inheritance of an American style organisation of government, parliament (congress), judiciary, health care and school system, which still persists today.

 

Some reasons include lack of immigration from Spain to the Phils due to distance and the population not being decimated by Western diseases like smallpox due to “non-zero” immunity in this part of the world. Spanish was only taught to a small percentage of the population in schools. My own observation is that the Austro-Malay languages were already well established in the region but there was some borrowing from Spanish for days of the week, months, a base 10 number system with Spanish words for numbers, reducing the need to fully adopt the language.

Perhaps you already are aware, there is a discussion on this at medium.com

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