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The Falls

Discussion in 'Military and Veterans' started by PatO, Aug 17, 2021.

  1. PatO

    PatO DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer Veteran Marines

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    Fall of Saigon, fall of Kabul. What is next, fall of the Space Nation?
    I believe there should be a vote by people in the west before we send militaries to die in wars that politicians and defence contractors decide on. If the people in the west vote to go to war, then win it quickly, not spend billions for military personnel to die and then walk away.
     
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  2. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    There is a vote. Many of the politicians who were all for starting the war in Afghanistan are still in office. The American people were just fine with the war for 20 years and continued to vote for the people who started and supported it. This is not just a bad look on American politicians, it is a bad look on the American people.

    The collapse of the Afghan military shouldn't have came as a surprise to anyone that spent time training and working with the Afghan military. In the 10 years I worked with the Afghan military and government I recall running across one single squad of afghan soldiers that look like and carried themselves like professional well trained soldiers. The rest were a complete joke (not bad people, just a complete lack of discipline, integrity, punctuality, education and training). From 2009 to 2019 there was zero improvement.

    Who I feel truly sorry and concerned for are many of the translators I worked with over the years. I really hope they were able to get out. They were good people and put everything on the line to help the US. F*ck the Afghan military and government, they had every opportunity to become legitimate. The abandonment of these translators and workers is what disgusts me.
     
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  3. OP
    OP
    PatO

    PatO DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer Veteran Marines

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    Rye, will you now find a new contract/location or join the fine forum retirement community?
     
  4. Notmyrealname

    Notmyrealname DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer

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    And it is not up to the USA to be world policeman on its own. All the free world needs to assist (financially as well as with service persons). If the world thinks it can sit on its backside and let one country shoulder the burden then it is in for a shock. In fact, how many governments moaning now actually did much in Afghanistan?
     
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  5. Notmyrealname

    Notmyrealname DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer

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    I read reports of Americans trying to train Afghans and it seemed to parallel what @DAVE1952 writes about training locals in building skills - they cannot learn basic methods. Combine their inability to fight and use modern military methods with the outcome for them if they were captured and it is no surprise they ran. All compassionate people have to agree with you about those left behind who gave service - what is in store for them and their families when they are identified and captured! It is horrific.
     
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  6. john boy

    john boy DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster

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    Will there ever be peace in this world?
    Although I have never experienced first hand the destruction of life and all that wars create, while people here in UK mourn the deliberate killing of five innocent people in Plymouth Devon this week, I cannot begin to imagine what it must be like to be caught up in whats happening right now in Afghanistan, after the withdrawal of Western Military forces.
    How about those left grieving for their love ones whose lives were lost defending the innocent in yet another Barbarian Country, how must they be feeling?
    Meanwhile the UK Government are debating how many refugees to allow into the country, what happens to those who cant make it?
     
  7. you_have_been_removed

    you_have_been_removed THIS IS SPARTA!!!!

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    Meanwhile, Taiwan shudders, Chinese wasted no time reminding the black sheep of the family what's in store for them too when the fan gets hit with the sh*t, no one will pick up the phone
     
  8. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Admin Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    Most of the developed world and a lot of the developing world played a part in Afghanistan. Germany had a huge base in the North with a large contingent of Hungarian forces, Italy in the West with a bunch of Nordic countries assisting, the UK and Canada in the South again with countries like Estonian and Lithuanian troops helping. All of NATO had a role to play. Turkey, Egypt, Mongolia and Columbia (and many more countries) even had troops there that played a role with lyrics and security. A good chunk of the world tried to help Afghanistan, and not in minor way. I worked on a US electronic warfare loan program that gave equipment to afghan and NATO partners and have seen the contributions they made first hand. Let's not discount the effort and struggles other countries made to that country. Yeah, the US gave the most in terms of money but it was our war after all. Nobody can claim that the world didn't try.

    I haven't worked there for nearly 2 years. I saw the end coming. No plans on going back but if someone offered me a ridiculous amount of money I would probably take another contract.

    When I was training them on radio jammers it was like training a bunch of 3rd graders. When they finished the course they got their certificate, they stood in front of everyone, held it above their heads, yelled some stuff, and proudly marched back to their seat with a sense of accomplishment. My best students were Taliban fighters who had joined the army to learn counter IED tactics. I was always suspicious of the soldiers who were paying attention, especially if they asked questions about what frequencies were being jammed.

    Note: My training involved locating the on and off button on the jammer and instructing them not to shoot the antennas. They regularly brought the system back for maintenance with the issue being they forgot how to turn it on. Sometimes they would tow the vehicle to my shop with a dead vehicle battery and say the jammer wasn't working. Plenty of antennas brought back completely destroyed.

    Does the US even officially recognize Taiwan as a country? I think there is a huge difference between the what happened in Afghanistan and what could happen in Taiwan. We didn't start that. Do we have a defense treaty with Taiwan?
     
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    Last edited: Aug 17, 2021
  9. Obliged Friend

    Obliged Friend DI Forum Adept Veteran Army

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  10. cabb

    cabb DI Forum Patron Highly Rated Poster ✤Forum Sponsor✤

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    The way I see this is that there is an equilibrium with anything. A place where things find a balance. The balance in Afghanistan was were we found it and where it will likely be once the US and partner nations are gone. All we do is tip the balance for the time we are there. When we leave, the balance returns. Unless there is a fundamental change in the components, the balance will return to the original equilibrium. Other nations provided support, training, money, security and yet the balance still returns. The thing we couldn't change were the people. I read somewhere that the government forces outnumber the Taliban by 4:1 and yet the balance returned. Frankly, if they aren't ready to fight for it, they don't deserve. It's sad what will happen to them and may in some way the our faults for not cutting our losses earlier. There comes a time where you send the child on his way and hope that what you have done is enough.
     
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