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Will you keep a gun when living the Philippines?

Discussion in 'Expat Section' started by pickled_newt, May 8, 2007.

  1. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    Short answer: illegally

    Long answer: RA 10591.

    "ARTICLE II
    OWNERSHIP AND POSSESSION OF FIREARMS

    SEC. 4.

    *Standards and Requisites for Issuance of and Obtaining a License to Own and Possess Firearms.*– In order to qualify and acquire a license to own and possess a firearm or firearms and ammunition, the applicant must be a Filipino citizen, at least twenty-one (21) years old and has gainful work, occupation or business or has filed an Income Tax Return (ITR) for the preceding year as proof of income, profession, business or occupation."

    And to transport:

    "SEC. 18.*Firearms for Use in Sports and Competitions.*–*A*qualified individual shall apply for a permit to transport his/her registered firearm/s from his/her residence to the firing range/s and competition sites as may be warranted."

    Since a foreigner is not a "qualified individual", as stated above nor permitted to register a gun it is COMPLETELY illegal to own, transport, sell or possess a firearm. Possession (which can be just simply holding a gun) is illegal for a foreigner. It's a bit tricky to shoot a firearm without first possessing it. It IS illegal and if someone that doesn't like you sees you doing so said person CAN have you arrested.

    I don't care what anyone else says....the law is VERY clear. Getting away with breaking the law is a different story though.
     
  2. Frodo

    Frodo DI Member Showcase Reviewer

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    Hi Wrye83. Clearly you have in-depth knowledge of Philippine law. What I am about to write is not intended to refute anything you said -- it is simply to share my experience and what I was told.

    I want to state clearly -- similar to what you said -- that foreigners CANNOT get a License To Own & Possess Firearms in the Philippines (which is now known as an LTOFP).

    The process for a Filipino/Filipina to get an LTOPF changed significantly late last year. I am very familiar with this topic because my Filipina girlfriend applied for an LTOPF last December. We attended a PNP Caravan put together for people applying for an LTOPF under the new process. The application requirements are extensive and are listed here (License To Own and Possess Firearm (LTOPF) Requirements

    During her neuro-psychiatric exam the PNP officer seemed as much interested in my psychological stability as hers -- she/we passed.

    The PNP delayed issuing LTOPFs for months as they implemented this new process. My girlfriend should receive her LTOPF next week. An LTOPF only allows people to have firearms in their place of residence.

    People with an LTOPF can then apply for a Permit to Carry (PTC). My girlfriend has not yet applied for a PTC because she is not yet in possession of her LTOPF. However, in anticipation of her getting a PTC, earlier this week when we were at Robinson's Mall we asked the guard if firearms could be carried inside the mall -- he said yes provided the owner has a PTC and leaves the PTC card with the guard while they are inside the mall. Note: The BQ Mall & ICM in Tagbilaran have a similar policy. Not all malls allow firearms! SM City & Ayala Center malls in Cebu PROHIBIT firearms inside the malls -- even with a PTC -- I know because I asked them. So, it's important to always ask first! Incidentally, at all of the ferry ports where we asked about their firearms policy they said firearms were allowed IF the person is in possession of a valid PTC.

    So, for the expats reading this, if you want firearms at home, suggest having your wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend go through the laborious process of getting an LTOPF. If you want to have a firearm close by when you go out TOGETHER, have the owner of the LTOPF get a PTC.

    My next point may generate some debate. I am not professing to be an expert on the law -- I am just sharing what a PNP officer told me. He said if my girlfriend has a PTC that I could carry the (concealed) weapon for her when we go out -- BUT we must be together at all times!!! He also said if we are attacked that I could employ her weapon to negate the attacker. I'm not saying that is completely legal -- although I do trust what he said -- but I believe the highest priority is to first survive an attack and then deal with any legal fallout afterward.

    As I am sure you are aware, earlier this month President Aquino directed Negros to consolidate their PNP into one region (PNoy signs order creating Negros Island Region | Cebu News, The Freeman Sections, The Freeman | philstar.com This is better than being split between the Region 7 (Cebu) & Region 6 (Aklan). Once the consolidation is complete I wouldn't be surprised if the new Negros PNP region creates an LTOPF caravan and visits Dumaguete. That would be much more convenient than having to go to Camp Crame!
     
  3. DavyL200

    DavyL200 DI Forum Luminary ★ Global Mod ★ Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer

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    The caravan has already been here around three months ago, did not visit Dumaguete. Mostly out lying areas inc bayawan.
     
  4. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    Foreigners cannot touch a firearm according to the law. You put yourself at risk of going to prison if you do (especially if caught carrying it around town). If you shot someone (that was intent on harming you) the police would likely turn a blind eye.....the family of the deceased would likely take you to court for blood money (if you are lucky, more likely their extended family coming after you to even the score). Personally, I don't agree with the law but it's not my country.
    [DOUBLEPOST=1435288874,1435288729][/DOUBLEPOST]Also remember that if you happen to shoot someone who is connected to a wealthy family you are screwed....license or not. You would be surprised how many of these wealthy families raise little poo heads who think they can go around and do whatever they please with immunity. (And they pretty much can do anything they like.)
     
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  5. Frodo

    Frodo DI Member Showcase Reviewer

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    Thanks, Wrye, for your two responses. I'll check with my PNP friend to see if I misunderstood what he told me. I believe countering a threat requires a proportional response. That means do not employ a firearm against someone threatening with his fists -- in that scenario pepper spray might be a proportional response, which foreigners can carry, or maybe use a taser, which foreigners can also buy in the Philippines. However, there are scenarios where employing a firearm is a proportional response -- and possibly necessary to survive. In those cases, I believe the first objective is to survive. I agree with you that a wealthy Filipino can use the courts to pursue a case regardless of the circumstances so foreigners should be prepared for the potential consequences of their decisions. Thanks again for the dialogue on this topic.
     
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  6. Jack Peterson

    Jack Peterson DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Air Force

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    To me, If you are not in the Wrong place, at the Wrong time, saying the Wrong thing to the wrong person, You shouldn't ever need a gun.:thumbsup:

    I just don't like guns. :sorry:
     
  7. Rye83

    Rye83 with pastrami Secured Account Highly Rated Poster SC Connoisseur Veteran Army

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    If everyone was normal and on equal social status then I would agree. Unfortunately there are people out there that will try to take whatever they want, whenever they want, using whatever methods they want.
    I completely agree with you here. I wish that I could own a firearm but I can't. I do have a airsoft gun that looks identical to an MP5 in the house. Shooting someone in the face (aiming for the eyes) would more than likely bring an intruder to a hault. That poo hurts and would do some permanent damage to the eyes. Personally I'd rather kill an intruder and pay for the blood money/funeral instead of paying for hospital bills and recovery but if that happened I'd just up and leave the Philippines and tell them to f*** off.
     
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  8. MJFrost

    MJFrost DI Junior Member

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    The goal should be the same taught to soldiers caught behind enemy lines: avoid and escape. What do the Phils laws say about tear gas & zappers?

    Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk
     
  9. PatO

    PatO DI Forum Luminary Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer Veteran Marines

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    We feel just as safe having a dog on the front porch at night as we did before we got rid of my wife's gun. Her 5 year license renewal was coming up and you couldn't get it done in Dumaguete. I never went to the range and fired it, although I understand foreigners are somehow allowed to shoot there.
    Is it entirely safe here or do you need a gun? Depends (standard answer to any question from a former consultant).
     
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  10. ChMacQueen

    ChMacQueen DI Forum Patron Highly Rated Poster Showcase Reviewer Veteran Army

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    RA 10591 was written specifically to try and keep firearms out of the hands of foreigners. The longterm foreigners may have a wife who has a business but the vast majority have gf's or wives who don't work or have a business.... more so caretaker wives. It used to be very common practice for a foreigner to have a gun registered in his gf or wife's name and if sh*t hit the fan he knew how to use it. After a number of cases that never got the right kind of media attention where a foreigner shot and/or killed a robber, burglar, and such type the law was proposed to help protect those poor innocent Filipino criminals trying to make an honest peso (by politician standards that is).
     
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