Yada Yada / The Off Topic Arena

24 states have laws that allow police to *request* you to identify yourself and in those states refusing isn't acceptable unless pleading the 5th which is only permissible when their is suspect of a specific crime knowing their name would catch them on. Yet in all states doing a stop for any *criminal* offense an ID can be required as driver's licenses are the law and while operating a vehicle (this only applies to the driver however) allows police to require a valid driver's license and failure to show one becomes a criminal issue onto itself.

Now it comes to what is considered a *criminal* offense. Having an expired tag or no insurance actually qualifies. Further while corrupt the police could say they saw erratic driving and that also qualifies as well. If police are searching for someone relating to a criminal offense that can stop virtually all motorists and require an ID and failure to provide can legally lead to arrest as could providing one and being found to be wanted for something else.

This is everything the Supreme Court has upheld and not a violation of the 4th or 5th amendment rights.

Now the bigger question. Would you rather not be bothered by police doing semi reasonable checks that some claim unfair and let potential serious criminals that may have been picked up as well off of the same thing stay free, or suffer the short inconvenience knowing that same inconvenience also results in making the streets safer picking up serious criminals?

I've known to many who claim that the police should butt out yet when some serious criminal is a repeat offender and ends up raping or killing someone all of a sudden the police should be doing more to catch and find them. Where is the balance between safety/security and personal privacy / personal freedom? Decades ago we had a lot more safety and still had a lot of freedoms and personal protections yet as we created more idea's on freedom and personal protections things like safety and security for the law abiding public has eroded. Crime rates are way up and criminals and thugs are given more rights then law abiding citizens.

 

You conveniently keep leaving out that even in those 24 states the police need a REASONABLE SUSPICION before they ask. Because even the courts realize that police just asking for no reason to believe there is a crime being committed makes them dicks. There must be reasonable suspicion before they can detain you.

Also you leave out that even in the 24 states you are actually being DETAINED for a reasonable suspicion of committing a crime. If you are Not detained, you are not required to identify because you are free to keep walking. This is why you always ask if you are being detained or are you free to go?

As of 2013, 24 states had stop-and-identify laws. Regardless of your state’s law, keep in mind that police can never compel you to identify yourself without reasonable suspicion to believe you’re involved in illegal activity.

But how can you tell if an officer asking you to identify yourself has reasonable suspicion? Remember, police need reasonable suspicion to detain you. So one way to tell if they have reasonable suspicion is to determine if you’re free to go. You can do this by saying “Excuse me officer. Are you detaining me, or am I free to go?” If the officer says you’re free to go, leave immediately and don’t answer any more questions.

You might look up some of Benjamin Franklin's most popular quotes. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety".

 

THAT MAKES SENSE TO ME BUT I HAVE TO ASK, WHY ARE WE ALL SHOUTING ON THE FORUM THESE DAYS. I'VE NOTICED MYSELF AND QUITE A FEW OTHERS DOING IT TOO. I THINK MONTY44 STARTED IT, AT LEAST HE'S THE ONE I'M GONNA BLAME.

 

I used it for quick emphasis. My entire post was not in caps. I tried to help Monty. Take it how you like.

 

I have some friends with bad eyesight and they use all caps so they can see what they type.

 

I also notice that you didn't quote the whole sentence, you had to edit it so all that would appear was all caps. Then you post in ALL CAPS. As I understand it, ALL CAPS is shouting, I never heard that capitalizing one word or a few words was considered to be shouting.
All caps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In typography, ALL CAPS (short for "all capitals" or "all capitalized") refers to text or a font in which all letters are capital letters. "All caps" may be used for emphasis (for a word or phrase). They are commonly seen in the titles on book covers, in advertisements and in newspaper headlines. Short strings of words in capital letters appear bolder and "louder" than mixed case, and this is sometimes referred to as "shouting".[1] All caps can also be used to indicate that a given word is an acronym.

 

The bit I can't stand is when kids type in caps and normal font. For goodness sake. Eg and received this morning:

gUd moRNiNg DAD. HOw r U. MaMa wANTs 2 KnOW If U GOT hEr a PReSeNT 4 her BIRThDAy. I teLL her nO U dIDnT as U alWAYS 4geT. Haha. I LOvE u, AtE xx

I mean what's that all about?

Shall we move this part of the conversation to the off topic Yada Yada bit?

(Not shouting, but simmering, no raging at the dying of the light. Somewhat futilely I might add)

C