⌛ Amazing people of Dumaguete.

Interesting comments from some members of this forum, however they seem to be confused regarding the Confederate flag. If I am not mistaken wasnt the American flag flown on the slave trade ships that were based in the Northern cities of New York, Boston. The merchants in the North became rich on the slave trade. Slavery in the North was active during the early years in the colonies and was ceased only beacuse it was not profitable.

There was no "Civil War", Slavery was legal in the United States and was protected in the Constitution. The only reason the North invaded the South was the loss of revenue it was not to abolish slavery.

The Confederate Flag was used by the soldiers in the Army of Northern Virginia. It was never the official flag of the Confederacy.

I could go on and on the misconceptions and mistruths regarding the War of Nothern Aggression. One of the writers posted the Confederate Flag with racism, however the President of the United States, A. Lincoln was one the the most racist men ever born. He did not invade the South the free the slaves, it was loss of money for his treasury when the South seseded.

 

Your very right regarding the cut and dry modern misconceptions of the "civil war"; basically distilled and passed down to us by grade school history lessons.
However, blanket statements about the war of Northern aggression are not accurate either, IMHO. The So called United States of America was in reality not in existence before the conflict, there were basically two societies running in opposite directions, tenuously held together by a divided congress and a beleagard president. The Northern industrial machine, and the backwards agrarian model adopted by the south. The South's only hope for survival was to increase it's number of slave based states and increase it's territory. Slavery was not economically viable by 1860. The south before the war was almost bankrupt, run down, and in decline. Slaves were expensive, and the only large slave holders were in the so called black belt of georgia, alabama, and Mississippi. If one really analyzes the conflict, it will become apparent that the south's dream of a slave based agrarian society was the downfall of their economic model. The war was lost before it started.

Correct slavery had nothing to do with the conflict per se. It was a paradigm shift in the making. In fact there was little sympathy or support for the war in the north which is the reason it took so long for the north to prevail. It could have been over in a year with coheshive leadership and public support.
The reasons conflict actually errupted are convoluted and serindipitous to say the least. When Jefferson Davis walked out of the Senate, and the defense of Sumpter was botched, (Fort Pickens remained however in Union control for the duration of the war), the die was cast.

Lincoln, while no equal rights advocate, realized as time went on and the war drug out that Fredrick douglas and the white abolishionists could bring pressure to bear. Lincoln was indeed dragged kicking into the civil rights movement. One might argue cultural relativism and that a racsist now might not have been a racist in 1860. But I would not classify Lincoln as a racist, but a pragmatist.

Interesting that the draft was reviled in the north, the war largly ignored, and riots broke out in the streets of New York over the draft. Many draft dodgers left for Canada. Sound Familiar?

The stars and bars (confederate flag) was one of almost two hundred battle flags, but it was incorporated in an early form on a national flag in 1863, it was also used from 1863 on as a naval jack.
It is true the flag as we know it today did not exist during the conflict.

It can be said that after Lincoln's death, the peace was won by the south with the duplicity of the Northern industrialists looking for cheap factory labor. The "civil war" concerning the rights of black americans was never declared nor was it over until the civil rights movement of the 1960's. Some argue it continues today.

Wrong thread I think, sorry, but hey got to go back and review some of my old essays. And I could go on and on and on

I think I'll start a new blog on this, might be fun.

 

"But I would not classify Lincoln as a racist, but a pragmatist"

A few quotes by Lincoln:

". . . Notwithstanding all this, there is no reason in the world why the Negro is not entitled to all the natural rights enumerated in the Declaration of Independence-the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I hold that he is as much entitled to these as the white man. I agree with Judge Douglas he is not my equal in many respects-certainly not in color, perhaps not in moral or intellectual endowment. But in the right to eat the bread, without leave of anybody else, which his own hand earns, he is my equal, and the equal of Judge Douglas, and the equal of every living man."-Abraham Lincoln, debating with Douglas in Illinois, 1858

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races-that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the 2 races living together on terms of social or political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion that I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position that the Negro should be denied everything." Abraham Lincoln, debating with Douglas in Illinois, 1858

 

interesting Dumaguete

I did not know all this, so very interesting for cricking up my educational arrears. Now I know a lot more of the interesting and amazing Dumaguetenian people Abraham Lincoln, George Washington, Judge Douglas and others.
I always thought they were Americans i.s.o. Dumaguetenians :D
The negroes I know.... they came from Negros

 

Yes, wrong thread! Good thinking RHB, start a new blog! This thread has got nothing to do with what you guys are talking. America's history? You're out of the loop. You guys knew this is about people of Dumaguete and the city itself. Please don't get carried away. Thank you. :D

 

"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."

-----
Source: Gabor S. Boritt, "'And the War Came'? Abraham Lincoln and the Question of Individual Responsibility," Why the Civil War Came ed by Boritt (1996), pp 3-30.

The "Yankees" are revisionist thinkers about their Abe Lincoln.

 

You have some misconceptions as well. First, slavery had been legal in the U.S., and was at the time of the start of the war, but it was about to be abolished. That was the main complaint the south had. Sure, there were other issues, but slavery was the dominant issue. Many people these days try to say otherwise, but they are deceived. Slavery was the top issue. Secondly, Lincoln was not for slavery, but was at first opposed to absolute abolition. He believed it should be a gradual process. He was later swayed to change his position. Thirdly, the flag that is thought to be the Confederate flag, was actually the battle flag. There was an official flag of the confederacy, but it has been forgotten as the "stars and bars" became the symbol for racists. Nevertheless, it is the symbol for racists. Fourthly, Lincoln did not invade the south. The south invaded the U.S.

 

start another topic please

Why people continue to put reactions to a completely Off-Topic discussion ?
Open another topic and get your arguments settled there, please
Thanks

 

amazing people of Dumaguete

The amazing thing about people from dumaguete is they all have opinions about things unrelated to threads that have been seripticiously hi-jacked.
Okay back on topic for me.
:D

 

hey, we even gotthe google adds referencing the U.S. Civil war ha, sure the Dane loves that!