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Diving pre-requisites

Discussion in '☋ Diving and Marine Life ☋' started by Gold Surfer, May 30, 2008.

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  1. Gold Surfer

    Gold Surfer DI Junior Member

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    Isn't it that you have to pass the pre-requisites prior to diving which is 200 meters/yards ( no time limit ) and a 10 minute float/tread in water?

    I passed the 200 meters/yards swim but failed the 10 minute tread/float. However, my DI still let me continue attending the PADI OW course ( 3 week course twice a week ). I passed all the confined diving skills and tests, but before our finals, my DI made a condition that I have to pass the 10 minute tread before I can join the 2 final dives in the lake. I have worked hard everyday in the pool for 3 weeks but still failed the 10 minute float/tread and I did not get certified.

    My question is, why did they still make me go through the whole course if I failed the pre-requisites such as the 10 minute tread/float? It would have been fine with me to lose my $50 deposit after failing the pre-requisite and come back when I'm ready! But not by allowing me to continue with the whole course to expedite my $250 fee and then not getting certified because I cannot tread for 10 minutes!

    Yes, to know how to swim is important in diving and you don't have to be an athlete to be able to do it. However, this is RECREATIONAL DIVING and it should have been the diving skills that they should focus your grade on the fact that you are fully geared when you do it. This isn't a swimming class!

    What are the odds of a diver losing both his BCD and fins while diving and that he has to tread in water barefooted?

    We were never required to be certified passengers when flying in an airplane? Nor you have to know how to parachute to view the sky from the plane?

    But I'm only talking about their standard here in the US and I want to know what's the standard in the Philippines.
     
  2. Rhoody

    Rhoody DI Forum Luminary

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    It is NOT a required that you are able to float 10 minutes BEFORE starting the course.
    It is a requirement for the certification as a Scuba Diver, what you are before becoming OW-Diver.(knowledge development 1,2,3 - confined 1,2,3 - OW 1,2)

    Here a quote from the Standards and Procedures of the PADI Instructor manual 2008:

    All standards that apply to student divers in the PADI Open Water Diver course apply to student divers in the PADI Scuba Diver course, with the following exception: Certification as a Scuba Diver requires successful completion of only the first three sections of Knowledge Development (including quizzes), the first three Confined Water Dives and
    Open Water Dives 1 and 2. PADI Scuba Divers must only
    complete the 10-minute swim/ float demonstrating that they
    can comfortably maintain themselves in water too deep to stand
    up in prior to Open Water Dive 2
    . Student divers must also successfully complete the Dive Flexible Skills, Snorkel and Regulator Exchange, Tired Diver Tow and Cramp Removal.
    Students must also read and sign the PADI Scuba Diver Statement
    prior to certification.


    This standards are valid worldwide and have nothing to do with US, PI or EU.
    So your instructor is correct. He even bend them to your side as you did already 2 OW dives, what would not be allowed by standard.

    You are correct, it is not a swimming class, but you are in the water and for that you should be able to deal with it, if not just don't go there.
    There are plenty of dives world-wide where you need enter the water first and the crew hands down the equipment to gear up in the water. How you do that if you can't stay on the surface.

    Another situation I saw by myself quite some times. Rough water, small rubber-boat, divers not geared up, boat flipped over ...
    what do you do ???? oooh... I die cause I cant stay on the surface until help arrives ???
    Yes there is a reason why you should be able to treat water at least 10 minutes !!! I don't know your instructor, but it seems to me that he is a quite responsible guy. Sure there are many black sheep out there and EVERYBODY is bending the standards (like he did already) But at the end its the "Law" and up to him not to break it.

    I am sure he gives you the chance on the next course again, what would be fair and gives you more time for practicing. My advice (but secret, pssst) swim 10 Minutes in a very small circle, that fulfills the requirement as there is no exact definition of how to stay 10 minutes on the surface :wink:

    don't give up and
    cheers

    Rhoody
     
  3. blackline

    blackline DI Forum Adept

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    Well to be honest I think that some given standards have to be given to get a certain licence. I have been a active diver since 1977 with over 3000 dives which have a span from artic (use of explosives to get hole in meterthick icecap) to pure tropical dives.Most of my dives is strong current dives.
    We are in some way victim of a bad diving education today, cause to many divers die under easily avoided circumstances. I have myself rescued 3 divers which allready was gone into panic or apathy.They had allready given up. One i the deep just sinkin' and two surfaced which I had to knock out and drag to shore.The two surfaced couldn't even tell strictly what was causing the panic.
    So ther have to be rules and test to pass to be able to get a diving licence.

    But some rules can be more stupid than others.
    I was attending a rescue course(not diving) for guard in the local scools Pool.
    I can easily admit that I am not a very good back swimmer. The guy which I should save alone was around 190 cm high and weight around 120 kilos. I was not able to get him safe to "shore" at the shallow end of the pool, without touching the bottom with my feet. Water depth around 50-60 cm. From the deep end (deep 3,5 meter) no problem at all.
    Some of the others that have to rescue a 50 kilo girl made it ok.
    So I failed to get the licence.:smile:
     
  4. Rhoody

    Rhoody DI Forum Luminary

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    I agree 100% w/ BL, there must be some rules, IMHO the ruels are (in each dive-association, including the European ones, where I come from before crossed-over to PADI) quite weak.
    I was in my DS in Sabang very popular to certify Divers "only" as Scuba Divers (12m max, and only with DM or higher). Why I did that ?
    Cause this guys and girls would enter the water and die one day without even knowing why ... being short of showing mastery of certain skills.
    In your case "10-minute swim/ float ......comfortably "

    cheers

    Rhoody
     
  5. blackline

    blackline DI Forum Adept

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    When I took my diving licence in 1977 (CMAS ** Nordic Diver) We had a one month lasting 60 hour course. 6 days sea diving + 4 days pool training.
    To get license requirements.
    3000 meter sea swimming with fins.
    25 meter underwater swimming without breathing.
    Swim down to 3,5 meters depth, put on all ABC equipment and empty mask before returning to surface.
    Swim down (snorkel only) to 10 meter to inflate west.
    Swim down to 5 meters to get scuba tank and regulator , open and put on before returning to surface.

    So I dont see that to stay floating for 10 minutes in sea as redicoulous.
     
  6. jellyfish

    jellyfish DI Forum Patron

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    I'm from the same starting period as BL and do recognize his license requirements very well. I am a grey DI licensed by CMAS.
    After many years the CMAS (Confederation Mondial des Activitees Sub aquasport: the world federation for underwater activities) had simplified many of the old requirements.
    IMHO some for plausible reasons (overdone/ not realistic) but also several for only commercial reasons, fearing to loose many potential customers to their competitors (no need to name them).
    If you have experienced a number of "not standard/everyday" situations where you did survive because of a thorough training, then you realize that a number of requirements are NOT AT ALL overdone.
    It's always when it's too late that comments are made regarding an improper education/training.
    I'm not in favour of advertizing my sport as an easy (everyone can do) sport.
    It has its risks and you have to be well trained to be prepaired for the non-standard situations which you can encounter at your certified level.
     
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  7. OP
    OP
    Gold Surfer

    Gold Surfer DI Junior Member

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    And I bet those three passed the 200 meter/yards and 10 minute tread/float requirements.
     
  8. OP
    OP
    Gold Surfer

    Gold Surfer DI Junior Member

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    Rescue course should require a stiffer pre-requisites because you are there to RESCUE and not be rescued.

    But for RECREATIONAL DIVING....I guess they should just concentrate on their students diving skills. It's not how you swim but how you dive!

    But I understand the dive center and PADI's pride and reputation of producing good DIVERS....I say good DIVERS and not SWIMMERS!
     
  9. OP
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    Gold Surfer

    Gold Surfer DI Junior Member

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    Here's PADI's Pre-Requisites ( page 4 of PADI Open Water Manual):

    " To become a scuba diver, you need to demonstrate that you're COMFORTABLE in water and have some BASIC swimming skills. Your instructor will have you float/tread water for 10 minutes and swim 200 meters ( no time limit ) or swim 300 meters in MASK, FINS, and SNORKEL ( no time limit ) - nothing extreme, just enough to determine you have BASIC swimming abilities."

    If I have to be a legalist, the way I'm gonna interpret it will be this way: That I can use a floatation device or BCD to complete the 10 minutes tread/float since it did not specify that I cannot use fins, life vest or BCD.

    Now if I'll request one and my DI refused to make me use a bouyancy/floatation device. If I will drown or half drowned for doing it....I can actually sue PADI or the DI for the injury sustained because the rules did not really indicate that I cannot use one and that I was refused when I asked to use one resulting in an injury.

    If this is a pre-requisite for rescue diving, commercial diving or dive master, yes I can understand it because the life of other divers are depending on you meaning there's more responsibility to it than just diving. It's a career!

    But for RECREATIONAL DIVING...what matters more should be on how good you are doing with your diving skills. Most divers that have accidents are actually very good divers.....because they go beyond their limits!

    Most average swimmers / recreational divers know their limits very well!
     
  10. Rhoody

    Rhoody DI Forum Luminary

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    exactly you give your self the answer :wink:
    As you are nothing of the above use a bit common sense and you will find out that your limit is..........
    WATER

    it's a Pre - requisite to become certified as a Scuba Diver, NOT to start the course.

    it also says :YOU NEED TO DEMONSTRATE that you are comfortable (this are very somple words that it is YOU !!!) the section I posted earlier (qoute from the PADI IM OW2008) says "themself"

    it does not say you need to show your instructor that you can hold on to an floating object ...

    it is VERY clear, and you show in a impressive way that floating is NOT your only problem

    as you don't want to understand nice words AND are unable to read I use other ones.

    IF you are not COMFORTABLE in the water (and you are obviously not) you DON"T belong in it. !!!! YOU DON'T HAVE BASIC SWIMMING ABILITIES.

    Stay away from it, only shower, NO bathtub !!!

    People like you ARE obviously NOT born to be in the water, nothing bad, not all people are.

    Do your own life a favor and DON'T go diving.
    do the whole diving community a favor and avoid causing troubles for them.

    You still can buy dive Equipment and go diving by yourself ALONE !!! just leave all those out of the game who wanna dive in a safe and responsible way...

    Chess is also a fantastic sport... just try it and you don't need to float for it... you just need to use fingers and brain ... ooops I guess that's where the problem starts...and I don't mean the fingers.

    BTW MR LEGAL, sue PADI and your Instructor, I hope your wallet is big enough you will help them to a real good laugh. (like you do help all of us)

    He sticks to the rules. You are wrong, just accept it. instead wasting time energy in discussing you should use it for floating and learning to be comfortable in the water... what a nut-case

    still floating and laughing, come on give me more

    Rhoody
     
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