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Top 10 in the World? In Dreamworld!

Discussion in '☋ Apo - Siquijor - Bohol ☋' started by ZambeziKid, Nov 1, 2007.

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  1. earlmj

    earlmj DI Senior Member

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    Lack of time

    Zambezikid , The "argument "has nothing to do with you. No need to get upset over nothing..It is an old matter not worth to get involved with..
    Anyway for the statistics of The Philipnes Diversity I could give you a solid list of species that can only be found here and not in Indonesia or other places. While all Indo species even Acanthurus leucosteron and Pomacanthus annularis. Endemic red Sea species not but those do also not appear in Indonesia as you will be well aware of. Australian )tropic ) species are here to be found same as Vietnamese and from Taiwan. Not sure about centropyge interrupes , but that is from Okinawa , di ba. I can think of some 300 or more species HERE then elsewhere ..Also on some corals, Polyps and Coelanterata / Echinodermatae Even Shrimps..There was I believ a year ago an expedition in the Philippine water that found again many many NEW Species yet unknown... Since non of yoi guys give me any feedback about Apari , i guess ( don,t be ashame) non of you have been there. A GOOD REASON is NOBODY GOES OVERTHERE !! Itis a very rough sea dn the coral reef is more a wall going down real real deep.. bet you will like that.
    For more info which as result of lack of time I cannot give you here look at the books of
    Dr. Warren Burgess , Dr . Herbert Axelrod but the most you will find in japanese writings and that is also more me.. .. japanse :D
    If i can find some spare time I will gather some data for you as I believe you are quite an asset here on the forum !!
    Like others I would like to read more and for very obvious reasons SEE more..
    Earl
     
  2. Rhoody

    Rhoody DI Forum Luminary

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    Zambesi,
    again I agree in certain points with you. Thank you for your links, the numbers written there are lacking some hundred speies compared to the numbers of the philippines, sorry that is fact. On top you cant just list any remote livabroad destinations. Would be the same if I list each divesite from the Sulu-Sea, or Apo reef. I did a tour with some friends earlier this year, from here to Puerto Galera on a big bangka. We jumped in the water whenever we wanted and found some great reefs around Islands with no names. The local dive community starts to wake up, the problem is the Philippino-fisherman attitude and big local diveshops.
    This is what a fishermen on Apo said on a meeting: We allow you to dive, not you us to catch fish. We are here since hundred of years.

    If you did some coastal dives you see how the sanctuaries are working, I still think you were diving with the wrong shop. I understand your arguments and to repeat myself, Apo is nice, but far away from my favourite here in this area. Rock east, west are my favourites on Apo because of the shallow breathtaking coral-gardens. Some of the other sites especially Mamsa and Cogon are overjudged IMHO, but still better than average divesites.
     
  3. jellyfish

    jellyfish DI Forum Patron

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    Thanks Zambezi, I got the water in my mouth again seeing the links. I was in 1999 in Biak (also on Irian Jaya as you will know) and had a really fantastic dive holliday. Indeed one the best ones. We were the only (!!!!) divers on Biak that time. The big Hotel Biak was already at that time nearly closed (now it is a ruin) and we 4 were the only guests. Diving was marvelous with big drop offs and a variety of species (big and small) and a very divers underwater scenery.
    As you correctly mention, there is more than the number of species which makes a dive spot interesting. You name them all in your reaction. Well done.

    Since I hope to live here still many years this is an important topic from my personal and selfish standpoint as well. I really hope we can do something to at least prevent the situation from worsening.
    My best example is Bonaire where I did dive 4 times (many dives however). Between my first time (1984) and the last time (2000) I can say that good marine management has had its positive impact.
    Sure there are also there some deteriorations, even caused by dive instructors who want to make profit of taking the very expensive (if they are delivered to hotels) langoustes. You can't have it all but it proves that when people work together it can lead to very acceptable preservation of our wonderfull nature.
     
  4. earlmj

    earlmj DI Senior Member

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    For your eyes only

    Well it was not my intention but here some name that just crossed my mind about Fish Species that can never ever be found in Indo nor Biak Waters.
    It is not that I claim here that all in the Phils is more exiting then elsewhere , just the diversity is the matter I speak of.
    Let me assure you while working with professionals going to remote places , just as you have been to , but here in the Phils , you will be amazed and perhaps even change your point of view.Though that once again is not my intention or desire.
    Some guys ride a banka here for 5 !! days to take a wet suit . but for sure that place is not Apo Island di ba ?
    Some pictures out of several hundred I have attached made by my collegae Dr John E Randall .My pictures , as older members know , are from sterile glass tanks only and do not justify the fish it vibrant colors..
    These fishes are only found in some parts of Australia and the harlequin Tusk on japan and Taiwan as well. The clownfish A. latezonatus is even rare in Australia..Charetodontp[lus conspicillatus ONLY occurs on Lord Howe island and yet.. look at Surigao........ Same counts for C. loriculla . Centropyge ferrugatus is even very very common in Zambales .. and replaces C. shepardi found in Guam..Though also here in Quezon.
    Some names of others :
    Genicantus watanabei . G. semifasciatus , G.bellus.(all Apari)
    Chaetodontolus ballinae Ch. conspicillatus . Ch. septentrionalis , Ch. caerleopunctatus . Assezor types , many many Anthias types I come across new species of that myself almost monthly.
    Paracentropyge venusta ( Apari) Crysiptera starcki ( Apari) I have months ago already posted a picture of that.
    Thats all for now , got to get back to work...try to take a dive at Surigao .. it will be to your taste for sure..
     

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  5. blackline

    blackline DI Forum Adept

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    Hello Guys.
    Looking at this discussion,and feel a little strange. When we are talking about quality diving destinations and objectivity, we cannot measure better than specie diversity.
    Later on we can discuss what places we like or not like.But this is a subjective discussion. That is what of an kind diving habitat I like best.Or best for me if you like. This have nothing to do with a objecktive judging of a dive spot.
     
  6. jellyfish

    jellyfish DI Forum Patron

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    Don't stay confused Blackline ...the perception of quality of DIVING is always subjective. And that was exactly the statement Zambezi made by exactly summing up all the ingredients which makes a destination/divespot as being perceived as fantastic, good, average or so-so.
    Measuring diversity is OK to me. It's indeed objective but that does not make it automatically a fantastic divespot for everybody. Look what Rhoody wrote about his dive to the carwrecks near Dauin.
    I have been also at that spot. I can't say that many ingredients Zambezi summed up are present there, but many divers (certainly the mini- and makro-lovers) can still be enthousiastic.
    So let everyone has his own perception of Quality Diving. We never can come in agreement about that.
    And I'm glad that is the case otherwise those "diversity-locations" were soon trampled down by us divers, is 'nt it ? :wink:
     
  7. blackline

    blackline DI Forum Adept

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    Well. The title of this thread is "Top 10 in the World? In Dreamworld".
    This gives for me a very negative way of looking at this rank.
    I dont know for sure what magacine or organisation which gave this ranking to Apo.But to discuss that we need to see on what reason it was given.And get into a discussion based on cientific studies based on that reasons. And with this in mind take our decision.Which is still subjective.For me Apo wil just be an average divespot cause my favorite diving is strong current,and the current on Apo I have seen is not att all what I am used to here.Even If it can be dangerous enough to new beginners and wrong fin users.
     
  8. earlmj

    earlmj DI Senior Member

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    For Blackline ( Nigrolineatus ??? )

    Tough many will consider me an ouitsider , since I don,t spend my time in the water. For strong Current yep ( why Earl you must talk about that place over and over again) APARI . It is a place NOBODY goes as there is a STRONG CURRENT , yet all is not spoiled... Season for diving is somewhat 3 months a year only.. Otherwise the sea is to rough . Like said , if you are in for falling from one amazing spot into an other... it,s a must. Still every new season many many new species are found overthere , but we talk about depths like 100 feet or more...
    Once again , I am not a diver , yet all information comes from highly professional Ichthyologists like Dr. John E Radall and many others. I do believe that one cannot argue with people of their status.spending their lifetime explorion places...,. but that is up to you .
    I mean are you looking for a bunch of nice fish and corals or into hot yet unknown stuff or Odd Balls ?? That was my point. If needed by PM I can let you into more details..
    Last year somewhat 5 or 6 people died overthere due to undercooling and undercurrent.......Those where NOT professionals and took everything for easy to be done.....
     
  9. OP
    OP
    ZambeziKid

    ZambeziKid DI Member

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    Hi Earl, I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make here. I believe you are referring to endemic fish species? It's just not possible that Philippines has all the fish species that are in Indonesia. I'm no expert on endemics, but I'd put any money you like on Philippines not having the Banggai Cardinalfish, just for one example. Indonesia has many, many endemics, as most people would assume in such a large country.

    It's easy to make spurious claims without any documentary support. If you are going to claim that Philippines has the most endemics in the world, again, pls show me some evidence (links etc). If your claim is true, then I'm sure it will be supported by evidence on the internet. As far as I was aware, Lake Malawi is supposed to have the most endemic fish species in the world!

    Why do the likes of the National Geograhic etc make all their underwater documentaries in laces like Lembeh Strait? Because of their endemics, the diversity, and ease to find rare creatures. Why do most top professional underwater photographers, such as Stan Waterman, choose to run their photography trips on Indo liveaboards? Because of the concentrations of fish and diversity.

    The proof of the pudding is in the eating, so they say ...
     
  10. blackline

    blackline DI Forum Adept

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    Hello Earl.
    Hope you can invite me to some strong current dives during my next trip to DGTE.At least share your experience for it.

    As I try to explain is that from my point of wiew I have had for me more nice dives in strong current here in Norway than experienced in Apo Island. But I wont use that as an argument for my divespot here is better than Apo. That will be cooked down to my subjektive meaning.When we are judging a place as a certain number divespot that have to been done in a certain matter that mainly is about how many different species of animals we have a chanse to see.So according to a science reason it will reach this score.Then it will be an objective
    judgement.So for me Earls way of judging is far more valid to me than any others here.
     
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